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[bitsandchips] Pascal in trouble with Asynchronous Compute code - Page 14

post #131 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

it has been mentioned multiple times by different users, that Pascal will not be able to provide this feature, and we'll likely have to wait until Volta. This is only a confirmation. Pascal is a Maxwell+. Or should I say, Maxwell was a gimped Pascal while awaiting the node shrink...?

Yep I agree Pascals arch was already set in stone before they relized they needed Aysnc Shaders, I think we will see "Async Compute" but not "Async Shaders" and not "Compute + Graphics" which is what DX12 uses.

I think Maxwell will also see Async Compute as well just on a software level and it will not be beneficial in the way that AMDs Async Compute + Graphics or Async Shaders are.

However get ready for mind to be blown. It is irrelevant to a lot of people. The list of games that will have Async or even DX12 is very small. If you dont play those games and NV powerhouses in the games you do then why buy into Tech that does you no good and actually lowers your performance.

It all comes down to what games you play, and if those games are going to get DX12, anytime soon.

As it does with every generation. NV cards will play X, Y, & Z Better, But AMD excels and A, B, & C.

Any logical human being will look at that and say, I play X, Y, Z, and B. So therefore I am going to choose a Nvidia card.

Or I play A, B, C, Y, and maybe even a little bit of Z at times, so I will choose an AMD card.

The issue is that this industry is chock full of people that are not logical and think that one tech is ultimately superior in every way no matter what the reality is.

Or in my recent upgrade from 290s to a 980ti I did it for Cuda. This is a Workstation Rig and a Gaming rig, so therefore I can use CUDA that adds weight to NV card over AMD. Everyone is making such a big deal over Async, its an Advantage for AMD which is great they need it. However lets not forget that NV also has a bunch of advantages up its sleeve.

Not everyone will matter to every person, in my case for instance. CUDA matters to me, it may not to you. Async matters to you as a bunch of upcoming games that you want to play use it. Personally none of those handful of games interest me so to me it matters not.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 3/28/16 at 3:05pm
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post #132 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Yep I agree Pascals arch was already set in stone before they relized they needed Aysnc Shaders, I think we will see "Async Compute" but not "Async Shaders" and not "Compute + Graphics" which is what DX12 uses.

I think Maxwell will also see Async Compute as well just on a software level and it will not be beneficial in the way that AMDs Async Compute + Graphics or Async Shaders are.

However get ready for mind to be blown. It is irrelevant to a lot of people. The list of games that will have Async or even DX12 is very small. If you dont play those games and NV powerhouses in the games you do then why buy into Tech that does you no good and actually lowers your performance.

It all comes down to what games you play, and if those games are going to get DX12, anytime soon.

As it does with every generation. NV cards will play X, Y, & Z Better, But AMD excels and A, B, & C.

Any logical human being will look at that and say, I play X, Y, Z, and B. So therefore I am going to choose a Nvidia card.

Or I play A, B, C, Y, and maybe even a little bit of Z at times, so I will choose an AMD card.

The issue is that this industry is chock full of people that are not logical and think that one tech is ultimately superior in every way no matter what the reality is.

Or in my recent upgrade from 290s to a 980ti I did it for Cuda. This is a Workstation Rig and a Gaming rig, so therefore I can use CUDA that adds weight to NV card over AMD. Everyone is making such a big deal over Async, its an Advantage for AMD which is great they need it. However lets not forget that NV also has a bunch of advantages up its sleeve.

Not everyone will matter to every person, in my case for instance. CUDA matters to me, it may not to you. Async matters to you as a bunch of upcoming games that you want to play use it. Personally none of those handful of games interest me so to me it matters not.


this. also: http://www.overclock.net/t/1595772/wccf-async-compute-only-boosted-hitman-s-performance-by-5-10-on-amd-cards-devs-say-it-s-super-hard-to-tune

as a gamer, i just need a card that gives me plenty of fps / $$, why pay for features i won't use anyway.
post #133 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Yep I agree Pascals arch was already set in stone before they relized they needed Aysnc Shaders, I think we will see "Async Compute" but not "Async Shaders" and not "Compute + Graphics" which is what DX12 uses.
t.

Pascal dead in the water then.
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post #134 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirx View Post

this. also: http://www.overclock.net/t/1595772/wccf-async-compute-only-boosted-hitman-s-performance-by-5-10-on-amd-cards-devs-say-it-s-super-hard-to-tune

as a gamer, i just need a card that gives me plenty of fps / $$, why pay for features i won't use anyway.

Then there is zero reasons to buy Nvidia.
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post #135 of 198
ASync Compute sounds great, but why are you paying for hardware that's just sitting there waiting to be used and not even fully when and if a game decides to use it? If die-space wasn't limited, I'd agree that having extra hardware resources to cover all use-cases is great. However, we knew that was an issue, and FP64 was cut in order to boost FP32 performance, hence the lead in DX11.

Are current GPUs reporting utilization truthfully? Given that NVidia has no resources to expend for ASync Computing, their 99% utilization balances out. On the otherhand, AMD is also reporting 99% utilization, but is also saying -- "hey we have these extra shaders idling to do work that gives 10% boost". Doesn't that really say that the AMD GPU is only 90% utilized in the normal case? This is not that different from a highly threading CPU that is underutilized by common software, except that the boost is actually phenomenal when the software takes advantage of multi-threading.
 
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post #136 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

ASync Compute sounds great, but why are you paying for hardware that's just sitting there waiting to be used and not even fully when and if a game decides to use it? If die-space wasn't limited, I'd agree that having extra hardware resources to cover all use-cases is great. However, we knew that was an issue, and FP64 was cut in order to boost FP32 performance, hence the lead in DX11.

Are current GPUs reporting utilization truthfully? Given that NVidia has no resources to expend for ASync Computing, their 99% utilization balances out. On the otherhand, AMD is also reporting 99% utilization, but is also saying -- "hey we have these extra shaders idling to do work that gives 10% boost". Doesn't that really say that the AMD GPU is only 90% utilized in the normal case? This is not that different from a highly threading CPU that is underutilized by common software, except that the boost is actually phenomenal when the software takes advantage of multi-threading.
FYI, 390X has a smaller die space than 980Ti.
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post #137 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

ASync Compute sounds great, but why are you paying for hardware that's just sitting there waiting to be used and not even fully when and if a game decides to use it? If die-space wasn't limited, I'd agree that having extra hardware resources to cover all use-cases is great. However, we knew that was an issue, and FP64 was cut in order to boost FP32 performance, hence the lead in DX11.

Are current GPUs reporting utilization truthfully? Given that NVidia has no resources to expend for ASync Computing, their 99% utilization balances out. On the otherhand, AMD is also reporting 99% utilization, but is also saying -- "hey we have these extra shaders idling to do work that gives 10% boost". Doesn't that really say that the AMD GPU is only 90% utilized in the normal case? This is not that different from a highly threading CPU that is underutilized by common software, except that the boost is actually phenomenal when the software takes advantage of multi-threading.


The reason it shows full loads is the length of idle time is very small we are talking nano seconds, however a few nano second every few ms adds up over the course of actual seconds to a boost.
The software is correct in the way it reads, the gpu utilization may drop but it does it so fast that the software can not catch it.


Also the biggest gain of Async is to reduce the CPU overhead, that is what everyone was so excited about. However that isn't a problem for Nvida never has been that only helps AMD.


Async may end up being very valuable tech in the future, but the future isnt here yet smile.gif.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

FYI, 390X has a smaller die space than 980Ti.

The 390x alos is not the competitor to GM200, the Fury is which die size is 596 to GM200s 600.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 4/4/16 at 8:09am
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post #138 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

The reason it shows full loads is the length of idle time is very small we are talking nano seconds, however a few nano second every few ms adds up over the course of actual seconds to a boost.
The software is correct in the way it reads, the gpu utilization may drop but it does it so fast that the software can not catch it.


Also the biggest gain of Async is to reduce load on the CPU, that is what everyone was so excited about. However that isn't a problem for Nvida never has been that only helps AMD.


Async may end up being very valuable tech in the future, but the future isnt here yet smile.gif.
Says the person who would like to postpone the present.
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post #139 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Says the person who would like to postpone the present.

How do I want to postpone the present?
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post #140 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

How do I want to postpone the present?
Your method is not my concern, it is happening right now.
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