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[Betanews]Windows 10 ruins a pro-gaming stream with a badly-timed update - Page 7

post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyshagg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Most large businesses just moved to Win7 which is a huge project for any large site. 8 will be skipped, 8.1 will be skipped, 10 won't be touched for years, if not a decade, when support for 7 goes out.

The PackDev teams having to get a working image, the testing, getting the AIK working and getting all the drivers in it, setting up the new MDT...

Yea, 7 won't be going anywhere any time soon.
lachen.gif

Oh man, I feel so bad for you. That sounds horrible.

(this next part is not meant to be insulting, just guesses based on what you said thus far)

When one dies I'm guessing you also have to reinstall everything including drivers either form a stock ghost image and work from there or just straight up from scratch? What is the turnaround window? For me, I can completely replace a user's broken computer in 30 minutes if I rush it, and we need to pre-windows encrypt the entire PC. No we don't use SSDs (much to my pain) They can get a coffee and watch.

No KMS server, no MDT server, so you also have a txt file for every Windows/Office/Adobe etc licence key you have assigned per name? Or do your users have the ability to install things and they have to keep track? I assume they don't due to your lock downs, but with only 200 users I could see them ordering the CD and you just installing it.

You obliviously do not push GPs, and I would like to hear how you actually handle updates. Do they need to bring you the computers one at a time? Your system would imply exactly why you dislike how Win10 does things; you're using Windows well outside it's environment.


I and eight others support a (several, but under one name) site where, if the users were divided between us, support more than four times the users you support each. Your way would require ten times the staff we have now, and multiply user's downtime probably twenty or thirty fold. In my environment, that is unacceptable.

And no, Viruses do not exist in the network.

Your way requires smarts (seriously, bravo), but I do not think I would call the solution itself smart as at least what you have said so far implies massive user down time when things do go wrong.

"Save money" perhaps in software, but certainly not in manpower or hours. One Domain server does not cost more than an employee, and one domain server can do AD, GP pushes, update pushes, MDT hosting, and more, which would cut out a ton of time. Even two, for redundancy.

MDT. What for? restore windows only and having to install everything else later? correct me if I'm wrong of course.
Turnaround is the time it takes to restore the most recent cloned image. All my pc's have ssd's since 2009. They have local and network backups. They can restore a 30GB image from the network in minutes and even less locally. 5 or 6 clicks, wait 20 minutes, reboot, done smile.gif


No volume license for Os licences. Very few computers are purchased per year. The rest of the software is opensource and some are cloud based. No hassle with keys etc.

Also, I see you are assuming as if all 200 are for the same job description, and are all either remote or mobile. 70% is local, 15% mobile and 15% remote, across 15 different departments all needing their very own software needs. No 200 keys of one thing. 10/15 at most.

Users cannot install software. They can open the only software I allow them to. Every need for assistance (new software, troubleshooting), I and only I have remote access to them all. All software resides in the IT fileserver. I spend weeks without having to get up my chair smile.gif

WSUS for windows updates like I said above. remote and mobile stations do use windows public server, I grant you that smile.gif


Don't tell my boss, but there are so few problems, I could disappear for months. So much spare time I could manage 4 times the computers.


I have to confess I dont see how a domain would improve my life. Really. And my bosses dont understand how other companies we work with spend fortunes in IT and are ridden with problems we haven't seen in ours for the past 10 years.

MDT for imaging, and if you're good with it, even application deployments (matters less, much much less). It's just a PXE variant. Select OS/pre-set type/applications, apply name, click go. I log in, click a check box, type in a name, click more check boxes, and click start. Final product complete, minus anything "special" that isn't on the MDT. Obviously you don't need it to restore things, but as a from-scratch solution, say after repairing a computer physically... Or if they get a new one. Windows restores are pretty unfaithful when the hardware changes for a full image, and file/program only backups don't include OS or drivers. It will also miss anything since the last backup (minus your file servers). See part 3.

Got ya, simple enough. No need to track keys when there are none. Office/adobe or a variant is fairly universal though, regardless of department, so that one isn't an unfair assumption. tongue.gif

Our computers do not get backed up. There is no point. No application saves data locally besides office (sigh...), and users should save all data to the network drives. As a result, while a computer may be "given" to a user, if required, a user can pick up any computer in the company and use it no questions asked provided they do not require specialty software. If theirs breaks, they get a "new" one and we repair it on our own time. If they report it as "slow" (thanks encryption) and we do not find a problem quickly, they get a "new" one and we re-image the old one on our own time, even if there probably wasn't an actual issue. User downtime as close to zero is the goal.

Likewise, a large push into VDI was done. We're back to user downtime numbers. Both of these situations require something more overarching than "this is your computer". (Also, VDI, <3)

The major bulk of our work is the usual "peripheral name here" broke, or "help my PC is so slow" (or HDD failures, happens), but nothing legitimately serious. That and I bet you don't have the field even half the stupid things we do. That's... not to say that you would neglect all the little things (How do I do this in Word, why won't the computer let me log in, etc), but when all you have to do is pick up the phone to get the help desk, users call in every single little thing. Not just "real" issues, but... *looks at ticket queue* We have two because users can't log into a website. We are not T1 helpdesk. Let that sink in. redface.gif

Also I actually guessed wrong. I checked our system. Just over six times as much each, we're over 5 digits now. Cool. When it multiplied I have no idea.

Domain's primary assistance in your situation would apply to simply keeping less manually tracked, and some god damn GPs. At 200 it may not be an issue for you, although I still say that sounds like hell and I wouldn't want to, but when you're at 10k+... I would not go back from the tools I have, even for 200 users. Just thinking of having to set up anything on the OS makes me cringe. Thats what domains are for.

I also still say that your issues with Win10 stem almost completely from not using the "windows ecosystem". Yours would play better with a Linux based OS for sure, you're already 75% of the way there.

EDIT: Oh, and SCCM.
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post #62 of 82
well at 10k I would do some things differently as well smile.gif That's a lot of computers.

Thanks for sharing your method

We basically have the same job you and I. Do you manage networks as well?


The benefit (aside from the smaller paycheck lol) of working in a smaller company is that you get to be vertically integrated. From the end user down to the network. The goal, like yours, is to reduce downtime (or increasing our freetime lol),

I will test open source domain again (there is simply no budget, hence my workarounds, that i am very proud of biggrin.gif ). And SCCM. Lets see what could be gained smile.gif

cheers
post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyshagg View Post

well at 10k I would do some things differently as well smile.gif That's a lot of computers.

Thanks for sharing your method

We basically have the same job you and I. Do you manage networks as well?


The benefit (aside from the smaller paycheck lol) of working in a smaller company is that you get to be vertically integrated. From the end user down to the network. The goal, like yours, is to reduce downtime (or increasing our freetime lol),

I will test open source domain again (there is simply no budget, hence my workarounds, that i am very proud of biggrin.gif ). And SCCM. Lets see what could be gained smile.gif

cheers

No I do not. I have the skill and ability to do so, but it isn't my job, and just... No. So much liability. *cringes* The more users you have, the more chance for someone to find a hole in the system.

I have no idea the full capability of non-Windows AD. Centralized accounts doesn't seem like it would help you much, but nightly/weekly GP pushes might, even if just to shut windows up. I don't even know if it can do GPs.

SCCM is the opposite of free. But it is nice. It's a "look at and drool" thing.

But one thing that is free that we use a lot... you mentioned all your software is on your file servers. AutoIT.

EDIT: For all the crap I'm giving you, at minimum it gives you absolute job security. I do not know many people who even know what everything you listed is, let alone what or how it does it's job. thumb.gif
Edited by KyadCK - 5/6/16 at 12:56pm
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post #64 of 82
I've yet to have Windows interrupt me for a update. Been running W10 for a little while now.
post #65 of 82
A lot of people are blaming this on the user, and while he might have avoided it, there's still something that no amount of special pleading can excuse: It seems like a monumental oversight on the part of whoever designed the software that it would ever deem that as an appropriate time to restart the system. Windows Screensaver can accurately detect when a system is idle, but Windows Update can't? Give me a break. If Microsoft want to push automatic updates so aggressively, then they need to at least design WU smart enough that it won't demolish UX, and that includes under default configuration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oced View Post

You can enable notification of updates without auto install by using the group policy editor.

Two things worth noting about that:

1) That setting used to prevent all types of updates, but now it doesn't prevent drivers, only regular Windows updates (and like tpi2007 said, who knows how much longer before they kill it altogether).

2) Be prepared to put up with disruptive full-screen takeover notifications demanding that you install the updates (not sure if it hijacks fullscreen applications though).
Edited by Oubadah - 5/7/16 at 7:36pm
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post #66 of 82
So I got the notification today for updates and restarting and this is what it looks like



So, how is it not his own fault again? rolleyes.gif
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post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

So, how is it not his own fault again?

Are you saying he scheduled the restart and then forgot about it?
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post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

Are you saying he scheduled the restart and then forgot about it?

I don't know, more than likely yes. And the full screen doesn't come up before you actually click on the notification on the right side corner. And the notification doesn't go away from the Action Center either before you've opened it. So the whole thing is one bashing fest on W10. It has it's problems I'll admit but this is not one of them and pure user error.
Edited by MadRabbit - 5/11/16 at 2:45am
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post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

I don't know, more than likely yes.

I guess only the guy himself will ever know. If that was case, then yes, that would be a little different.

Still, I would have thought that WU might be smart enough to detect when the PC is under load. There should be two prerequisites for a restart (unless manually initiated right then and there): The time is as defined by the user, and the system is idle. This is how scheduling systems work in a lot of other programs; If something is hammering the system at the target time, the action is delayed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

And the full screen doesn't come up before you actually click on the notification on the right side corner.

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

If you're referring to the full-screen takeover notifications I might have referenced further back, those definitely happen, but it's when you're using gpedit to disable auto updates.
Edited by Oubadah - 5/11/16 at 2:48am
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post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

I guess only the guy himself will ever know. If that was case, then yes, that would be a little different.

Still, I would have thought that WU might be smart enough to detect when the PC is under load. There should be two prerequisites for a restart (unless manually initiated right then and there): The time is as defined by the user, and the system is idle. This is how scheduling systems work in a lot of other programs; If something is hammering the system at the target time, the action is delayed.
What does that have to do with the price of fish?

If you're referring to the full-screen takeover notifications I might have referenced further back, those definitely happen, but it's when you're using gpedit to disable auto updates.

That would be a good option yes, hopefully they will put that in at some point of time. thumb.gif
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Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
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AMD
(13 items)
 
Intel
(7 items)
 
Home Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 Asus M5A99FX Pro MSI Radeon R9-280x MSI Radeon R9-280x 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
  hide details  
Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Betanews]Windows 10 ruins a pro-gaming stream with a badly-timed update