Overclock.net › Forums › Mobile Computing Forum › Laptops and Netbooks › 100W laptop universal car charger for 130W Dell i7559
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

100W laptop universal car charger for 130W Dell i7559 - Page 3

post #21 of 30
yeah yeah, I'm wrong.

http://www.aussiebatt.com/blog/typical-laptop-power-battery-system-diagram/ (you might wanna check out point 5. )

Been fixing boards for a long time. The input is NOT directly applied to the battery, but is done throught a DC-DC charging circuit, which takes care of slight variations on the input.

Edit : Actually, you're not totally wrong. In the case of a phone or tablet, which typically has a 3.7V battery (usually they charge to 4.2V from a 5V supply) 1 volt would be a HUGE difference (20% increase), and indeed do the battery no good in those devices. you'd be applying almost double the voltage of the battery. But in the laptop's case 1 extra volt would only be a 5.3% increase in voltage, and the charging circuit inbetween would take care of the difference.
Edited by latelesley - 5/19/16 at 3:13pm
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by latelesley View Post

yeah yeah, I'm wrong.

http://www.aussiebatt.com/blog/typical-laptop-power-battery-system-diagram/ (you might wanna check out point 5. )

Been fixing boards for a long time. The input is NOT directly applied to the battery, but is done throught a DC-DC charging circuit, which takes care of slight variations on the input.

Edit : Actually, you're not totally wrong. In the case of a phone or tablet, which typically has a 3.7V battery (usually they charge to 4.2V from a 5V supply) 1 volt would be a HUGE difference (20% increase), and indeed do the battery no good in those devices. you'd be applying almost double the voltage of the battery. But in the laptop's case 1 extra volt would only be a 5.3% increase in voltage, and the charging circuit inbetween would take care of the difference.

Over the course of the life of the device, a 12v rail powering the current for the GPU should not fluctuate more than 1-2% on average. If it's jumping around from 13v to 11v at any point for any length of period, PSU review sites will outright call the companies and tell them to recall those devices.

Laptop PSUs have an Efficiency Rating of 5, which is the highest you can get, typically meaning it's about equivalent to a 90% Gold rated PSU at MINIMUM. That's just heresay from other websites, and some knowledge I've kinda cobbled together. (BS guesswork somewhat too. tongue.gif) I've ALWAYS been told to make sure the voltage is the same. If you have to change that part, go lower. Over a long period of time, and even weeks was too soon, years going by would show a sizable impact on the battery at the dead minimum. That and you might end up frying the power jack on the motherboard too, I've seen that before.

Apologies for coming across as super intense on the matter. ^^;
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6300HQ Dell Proprietary 4GB Nvidia GTX 960M Samsung 12GB (1x8GB 1x4GB) DDR3L 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
256GB SanDisk M.2 SSD 1TB HGST 7.2k HDD Custom Cooling by Dell Solutions Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
15.6" 1920x1080 IPS Screen Dell 130w PSU Logitech G602 Wireless 
Mouse Pad
Xtrac 'Ripper' Mouse Pad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-2760QM Toshiba Qosmio X775 Nvidia 1.5GB GTX 560M 8GB DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
120GB Samsung 830 SSD + 1TB HGST 7200RPM HDD CD/DVD-RW Stock Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
17.3" - 1600x900 Standard backlit 180w Power Adapter Logitech G500s 
Audio
Harmon/Kardon Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6300HQ Dell Proprietary 4GB Nvidia GTX 960M Samsung 12GB (1x8GB 1x4GB) DDR3L 1600 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
256GB SanDisk M.2 SSD 1TB HGST 7.2k HDD Custom Cooling by Dell Solutions Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
15.6" 1920x1080 IPS Screen Dell 130w PSU Logitech G602 Wireless 
Mouse Pad
Xtrac 'Ripper' Mouse Pad 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-2760QM Toshiba Qosmio X775 Nvidia 1.5GB GTX 560M 8GB DDR3 1333 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
120GB Samsung 830 SSD + 1TB HGST 7200RPM HDD CD/DVD-RW Stock Windows 10 Home 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
17.3" - 1600x900 Standard backlit 180w Power Adapter Logitech G500s 
Audio
Harmon/Kardon Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 30
hey it's cool. We all have different bits of knowledge, and we're bringing it all together here. You were given good advice, to make sure the voltage is the same, and the same polarity. That is the right rule of thumb. But in this case, with a voltage like 19V, it is safe to go a volt either side. At that voltage, it won't make much difference to the current running through the device. Using 6V on a 5V device is a whole other matter, where the tolerances are tighter. Same for CPU's, where 0.25V can make the difference between working, and magic smoke. It's not always safe to go lower in voltage as in some circumstances it can increase the overall current, as efficiency drops, especially for DC-DC converters. Have you ever looked at PC PSU tests which show the efficiency curves at 110V and 220V? Ever noticed the supplies run slightly more efficently on 220V (240V here in the UK)?? It really depends on the device you are supplying whether going up or down is the best idea. Also if you are near a capacitor standard voltage setting, it IS sometimes better to go down rather than up. they tend to be 6.3V, 10V, 16V, 25V, 35V and then your into the bigger stuff. In small circuits you usually never go above 35V. Anything like a laptop input, I would expect a 35V cap, but it wouldn't surprise me if some manufacturers chose the 25V one to reduce size. That's where the danger can lie, when you get close to the rated voltage.

Also you are right that most laptop PSUs are considered to be 90% efficient, but TBH that probably their peak efficiency at a medium load. We don't really test them like we do PC PSUs, so who knows? Maybe a test we should do, as see what the reality is. The thing is, at such a low wattage, then tend not to bother, as you are only talking a few watts here and there. 80% of lappys run on either 65W or 90W PSUs. Only the gamer ones which we are more interested in will use beefier ones. So in most cases your arguing over 7W-10W which is hardly worth the difference, unless you have many multiples of supplies.

As for power jacks, I've replaced a fair few in my time too. Again, a higher voltage could actually mitigate this. Really they are shoving too much current through those jacks though, and most I've replaced have had rather anaemic cables or track pads on them. Upping voltage, can increase inrush currents at the start, lowering voltage can increase continuous currents as the DC-DC converter switches on for longer to compensate. so it can be hard to figure out which way to go if you don't get an exact value. the thing that melts jacks though, are increased currents, so I would actually tend to head up in voltage a little, because overall you reduce the current a little. The hardest part for most folk to get their head around, is it's the current that does the damage, the voltage is just the driving force. And in pure resistive loads, you increase the voltage, you increase the current. It's a whole different ball game though in active circuits, like DC-DC converters. That's why I laugh sometimes at the arguments here as to whether smoothing caps have current flowing in them or not. Caps can have a LOT of current flying through them, yet folk don't think they do if they are acting as a smoothing cap. I dread to think what flies though some of the motherboard caps, where there could be 100+ Amps flying through the processor at full load.

Anyway don't sweat it. It's good to have debate, that's how we all learn. I've learned LOADS from others here. Even with my HNC in Electrical and Electronic eng, I don't know everything. smile.gif

Stay cool! thumb.gif
post #24 of 30
I think you're all forgetting the battery here. The beefiest laptops only have a 90w/hr battery. The laptop will never charge the battery beyond c=1. Therefore if all he needs is to charge the battery and not game out while stuck in traffic, a standard 90 watt dell adapter will work fine. It just won't charge the battery and downclock the gpu if he tries to use it plugged in.
post #25 of 30
the thing, it never quite works out like that. The PSU has to deal with the worst case scenario of a discharged battery, AND running a full load. So the PSU should be rated to provide a little more power than the laptop will draw at full load, to be able to charge the battery too. This is worst case scenario. If you have a 90W adapter on a laptop which draws 110W at full load, and you run the laptop full load, it would actually draw from the battery, and eventually power down to save the battery, once the battery protection circuitry signalled the machine to switch off. At this point the battery would charge.

Point is, it is possible to have a laptop connected to a PSU, and still draw from the battery too, if the PSU isn't powerful enough to run the laptop on it's own, with the laptop maxed out. It is a highly unlikely scenario, but it is possible. (BOINC? Prime? Furmark?)

Though I suppose if the GPU/CPU downclocked to save power, it could stop a shutdown. So you are right there. But only if it's on the right power profile.
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by latelesley View Post

Point is, it is possible to have a laptop connected to a PSU, and still draw from the battery too, if the PSU isn't powerful enough to run the laptop on it's own, with the laptop maxed out. It is a highly unlikely scenario, but it is possible. (BOINC? Prime? Furmark?)

Not as unlikely as you think. I've had it happen on XPS (legacy) laptops while using the standard 65W Dell charger and running benchmarks. Highly synthetic tests should take into account power draw, and it would be nigh impossible to run the CPU under heavy synthetic load and expect the GPU to operate nicely too. Heat will almost definitely cause temperature throttling which will reduce the power draw. Not to mention the laptop firmware itself can intelligently throttle the components to keep within a power window. Draw too much current from a battery and it will overheat - the laptop should be "smart" enough to stop that from happening.
post #27 of 30
I just want to add something here because I don't know if it affects Dell's gaming laptops. A few "modern" dell laptops I have used (Mostly Latitude but one was XPS) would not charge off of any charger rated even a slight bit below or above the rate that the charger that was shipped with them. Instead you just get an error on boot up (Uncertified charger connected or something along those lines) or in OS saying "Connected but not charging" (And would not even charge when turned off). They would power the device at least but the battery was not touched.
Piledriver Reborn
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 4770k 4.5Ghz Asus Z97 P Gigabyte RX 480 4GB (580 BIOS) 16Gb (4x4Gb) @ 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston SSDNow 120GB M.2 Seagate Constellation ES 2TB Sandisk X110 128gb  Enermax UCTP12P 120mm x 5 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Phanteks U-Type Black Windows 10 Pro Samsung 27" Curved S27D590C Corsair K95 RGB Platinum 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair Modular RM650X Zalman Z11 Plus Corsair Glaive RGB Corsair Polaris 
AudioOther
Corsair Void Pro 7.1 Ikea Corner Desk 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7 3540M Dell Panther Point Chipset QM77 Intel HD Graphics 4000 16Gb (2x8gb) Hynix DDR3l 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
128GB Sandisk X110 Dell Stock Fan + Arctic Silver 5 Windows 10 Pro 1366x768 60Hz 
KeyboardPowerMouseAudio
UK-Layout Dell Keyboard 66600mWh Dell Extended Battery Dell Touchpad IDT 92HD93BXX Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I5 3427U Panasonic CF-AX2 Intel HD 4000 Series 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3L 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
128GB Samsung P830 M-Sata SSD Stock Cooler Windows 10 Pro Ubuntu 17.04 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
1366x768 10.1" Touchscreen @ 60Hz Panasonix CF-AX2 EN-GB Qwerty Keyboard Panasonic 29520mWh Panasonic CF-AX2 Touchpad 
Audio
Realtek ALC269 
  hide details  
Reply
Piledriver Reborn
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 4770k 4.5Ghz Asus Z97 P Gigabyte RX 480 4GB (580 BIOS) 16Gb (4x4Gb) @ 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston SSDNow 120GB M.2 Seagate Constellation ES 2TB Sandisk X110 128gb  Enermax UCTP12P 120mm x 5 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Phanteks U-Type Black Windows 10 Pro Samsung 27" Curved S27D590C Corsair K95 RGB Platinum 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair Modular RM650X Zalman Z11 Plus Corsair Glaive RGB Corsair Polaris 
AudioOther
Corsair Void Pro 7.1 Ikea Corner Desk 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I7 3540M Dell Panther Point Chipset QM77 Intel HD Graphics 4000 16Gb (2x8gb) Hynix DDR3l 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
128GB Sandisk X110 Dell Stock Fan + Arctic Silver 5 Windows 10 Pro 1366x768 60Hz 
KeyboardPowerMouseAudio
UK-Layout Dell Keyboard 66600mWh Dell Extended Battery Dell Touchpad IDT 92HD93BXX Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core I5 3427U Panasonic CF-AX2 Intel HD 4000 Series 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3L 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
128GB Samsung P830 M-Sata SSD Stock Cooler Windows 10 Pro Ubuntu 17.04 
MonitorKeyboardPowerMouse
1366x768 10.1" Touchscreen @ 60Hz Panasonix CF-AX2 EN-GB Qwerty Keyboard Panasonic 29520mWh Panasonic CF-AX2 Touchpad 
Audio
Realtek ALC269 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoReaper View Post

I just want to add something here because I don't know if it affects Dell's gaming laptops. A few "modern" dell laptops I have used (Mostly Latitude but one was XPS) would not charge off of any charger rated even a slight bit below or above the rate that the charger that was shipped with them. Instead you just get an error on boot up (Uncertified charger connected or something along those lines) or in OS saying "Connected but not charging" (And would not even charge when turned off). They would power the device at least but the battery was not touched.

true. i work for a high school as a tech and see a lot of laptops if the charger isn't high enough it wont charge the battery but can still run the laptop.

as for earlier, you can use a 20volt charger to charge a 19.5v laptop. they usually have a +/- 10% rating on it so its within margin.
Main Rig
(19 items)
 
The Traveler
(8 items)
 
Server
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3230m 2.6ghz Lenovo Y500 2 GTX 650 in SLI Corsair Vengeance 2x4gb 1600mhz - CMSX8GX3M2B16... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
CT256M4SSD3 256Gb ssd Samsung ST1000LM024 1Tb Liteon eUAU108 usb dvd drive Win 8 + Pro Pack 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(19 items)
 
The Traveler
(8 items)
 
Server
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3230m 2.6ghz Lenovo Y500 2 GTX 650 in SLI Corsair Vengeance 2x4gb 1600mhz - CMSX8GX3M2B16... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
CT256M4SSD3 256Gb ssd Samsung ST1000LM024 1Tb Liteon eUAU108 usb dvd drive Win 8 + Pro Pack 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 30
That is because they build in some kind of software into the chargers. And that has to "communicate" with hte device. That way the device knows it is the correct/original charger. Thus will always work/protect battery etc...

When it charges via usb-cable, you can cut the 2 datalines and keep the 2 power lines. Insulate the 2 data wires on the power side of usb cable and connect the 2 wires whit eachother on the device side of the usb cable. This will result in charging at full power. This can also be used for charging stuff via usb port of PC. It can give a max of 500mA but sometimes Windows sets it to a max of 100mA. This "hack" will charge at max current (500mA of usb2.0 port)

Hint: use 1 male to female usb cable to do this and place it in between the power and device. Else you have to cut every usb cable from every device you have tongue.gif

This works with older devices that "comunicate". Some newer ones still require the datalines connected thus this hack will NOT work
   
Main Laptop
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k 3.4GHz @ 5.2GHz ASUS P8P67 Deluxe (B3) SLi ASUS GTX780Ti DC2OC 16GB (4x 4GB) Vengeance 1866MHz @ 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
C: Crucial MX200 250GB D: Caviar Black 2TB E: Spinpoint 750GB F: Raptor 150GB (Ubuntu 12.04 Dual Boot) 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
ASUS BD Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Asus PB278Q 2560x1440p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G11 Corsair 1kW Antec 1200 Logitech G600 
Mouse PadAudio
A4 paper :D Logitech Z-5500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9450 (2.6GHz to 3.8GHz) ASUS 780i Striker II Formula ASUS GTX 470 8Gb (4x2Gb) Dominators 1066MHz DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
C: Crucial M4 256GB D: 1x Raptor 150Gb & E: + F... ASUS DVD + DVD(RW) Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit ASUS 26" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech Corsair 750W Antec 300 Logitech G5 
Mouse PadAudio
A4 paper :D ASUS Cine5 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 something something ASUS N750JV nVidia 750M 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 Kingston 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
C: Crucial MX200 mSATA 250GB + D: WD 1TB 5k4 E:... DVD-RAM DL C: Windows 7 64-bit, E: Linux Elementary OS Luna 17" 1080p 
Mouse
ASUS Optical USB 
  hide details  
Reply
   
Main Laptop
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k 3.4GHz @ 5.2GHz ASUS P8P67 Deluxe (B3) SLi ASUS GTX780Ti DC2OC 16GB (4x 4GB) Vengeance 1866MHz @ 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
C: Crucial MX200 250GB D: Caviar Black 2TB E: Spinpoint 750GB F: Raptor 150GB (Ubuntu 12.04 Dual Boot) 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
ASUS BD Thermalright Silver Arrow Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Asus PB278Q 2560x1440p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G11 Corsair 1kW Antec 1200 Logitech G600 
Mouse PadAudio
A4 paper :D Logitech Z-5500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9450 (2.6GHz to 3.8GHz) ASUS 780i Striker II Formula ASUS GTX 470 8Gb (4x2Gb) Dominators 1066MHz DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
C: Crucial M4 256GB D: 1x Raptor 150Gb & E: + F... ASUS DVD + DVD(RW) Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit ASUS 26" 1080p 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech Corsair 750W Antec 300 Logitech G5 
Mouse PadAudio
A4 paper :D ASUS Cine5 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 something something ASUS N750JV nVidia 750M 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 Kingston 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
C: Crucial MX200 mSATA 250GB + D: WD 1TB 5k4 E:... DVD-RAM DL C: Windows 7 64-bit, E: Linux Elementary OS Luna 17" 1080p 
Mouse
ASUS Optical USB 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
But after the power jack, there are voltage regulators in the laptop's power supply system.

Because, there's a power supply regulators directly after the interface of battery or charger power jack of 19.5V, then there're the voltage regulators for memory, CPU .. etc.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Laptops and Netbooks
Overclock.net › Forums › Mobile Computing Forum › Laptops and Netbooks › 100W laptop universal car charger for 130W Dell i7559