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[Various] AMD’s Zen Eight Core CPU Delivers Double the Performance of the FX 8350 (Update 2) - Page 44

post #431 of 564
http://wccftech.com/amd-am4-motherboard-bristol-ridge-apu-spotted/

AM4 spotted...
post #432 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Don't be unfair. I'm sure he's using all of those extra features and super high OC's with the robustness of the motherboards. Can't cut corners!

...he's not wrong though...

you see all those rounded corners on the IHS? That just shouts "Unreliable". I got my eyes opened now.
post #433 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

Zen doesn't share the FPUs, so that's where the largest improvements should be. Also, SMT over CMT should give fairly sizeable upgrades in multithreaded scaling. Having both cores in a module only grants about 80% more performance than only running one of them, as resources are shared. Meanwhile SMT should add at least 15% per core.

Piledriver: 1,8 cores * 1 FP IPC * 1 SMT * clock = 1,8 IPC per two cores
Zen: 2 cores * 1,5-1,6 FP IPC * 1,15 SMT * clock = 3,45-3,68 IPC per two cores

In floating point, when all threads are used, Zen should be twice as fast with the same amount of cores at a specific clock speed.

No, Zen doesn't share a front end as much, so that is where the biggest improvements should be. The Bulldozer design had a scheduler and a decoder that fed into the two integer cores and two floating point units. This was a bottleneck of the design since not everything could be fed well. The FP design also had its own bottleneck in that in order to do a 256-bit instruction both 128-bit FMACs had to be scheduled to be idle and then combined into a single unit to do a large instruction. But the FMACs were also held back by being weak designs and not being able to be fed well enough.

Further, SMT is the lowest multithread scaling design that is possible to use. It provides the lowest performance gain of all types. The advantage of it, is that the cost to implement is very small. The cost to implement CMT is very large, but it provides a far larger gain when designed properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

thumb.gif

and your point?

the wattage dissipated from FX chips creates less heat than the wattage dissipated from an Intel chip

therefore, less wattage is actually dissipated into PURE heat.

You don't seem to be understanding the concept here. Heat output is measured in watts. There is no 10w of intel heat = more than 10w of AMD heat. One of the main reasons AMD "runs cooler" is that Intel has temperature sensors in the core itself and you are measuring core temperature. AMD measurement point is not within the core itself so the heat output is measured lower. That is why AMD says their max temp is much lower than Intel, because at that temperature the AMD reading is at, the internal core is actually much hotter. Further, the Intel processors are a bit harder to take the heat away from since the surface area is less. But when both an AMD processor and an Intel processor are using 125 watts, they are both producing the same amount of heat.
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post #434 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

thumb.gif

and your point?

the wattage dissipated from FX chips creates less heat than the wattage dissipated from an Intel chip

therefore, less wattage is actually dissipated into PURE heat.


I said nothing about the efficiency PER watt. in terms of performance, other than imply that intel is limited by while historically AMD CPU run cooler than all recent Intel chips

you merely need to look at the voltage and wattage used, to end up at your temp limit.

so lets say AMD caught up on performance per watt when they already outpace Intel with efficiency of the power used, don't you think intel would be a little bit wary of this?

with the amount of power being pushed though these chips overclocked to have temperatures 20-30* lower under-load under the same cooling conditions than the Intel counter parts?

Let's hope this carries over to a Zen APU. The thermal properties we can overclock like crazy!
Edited by SpeedyVT - 6/5/16 at 3:41pm
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post #435 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

But when both an AMD processor and an Intel processor are using 125 watts, they are both producing the same amount of heat.

Even if that's the case, it still doesn't change the fact that Intel CPUs will throttle because of thermals before AMD ones will.
post #436 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

...stuff...There is no 10w of intel heat = more than 10w of AMD heat....stuff...

I think he is just saying the AMD CPUs generate less heat per watt consumed, as to higher COP, hence less waste and heat.
...or just less leakage...
idk...just guessing.
Edited by C2H5OH - 6/5/16 at 4:25pm
post #437 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by T1A1 View Post

I think he is just saying the AMD CPUs generate less heat per watt consumed,
Yeah, that's what he's saying. The problem is he's wrong. He doesn't understand the distinction between heat and temperature, so he isn't saying what he means. Energy in is equal to energy out, and virtually all(over 99%) of that energy out is in the form of heat.
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post #438 of 564
Interested in platform, I wonder how competitive it will be priced. I would assume that the 8 core 16 thread model will cost a lot, I hope they offer a 6 core 12 thread version for around $399 with a ton of PCIE lanes.
    
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post #439 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

Yeah, that's what he's saying. The problem is he's wrong. He doesn't understand the distinction between heat and temperature, so he isn't saying what he means. Energy in is equal to energy out, and virtually all(over 99%) of that energy out is in the form of heat.

Do you have a citation for that?

EDIT: Never mind, you're talking about the second law of thermodynamics. Your argument is the sort of pedantry that only confuses a legitimate debate. Yes, all work generates heat, every person who has gone through grade school knows that. What the rest of us are talking about is waste heat, the accumulation of which eventually causes a transistor to fail entirely if there is no throttling mechanism and if it is not transported away. Intel transistors are probably more efficient in this regard on a one for one basis, however the number of transistors in a given area (density) is higher and therefor waste heat is more prevalent in total in Intel CPUs. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if Intel designed a proper IHS, however they don't so Intel is stuck with only modest improvements and clock speeds which are lower than they should be.
Edited by Fyrwulf - 6/5/16 at 6:36pm
post #440 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by T1A1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Don't be unfair. I'm sure he's using all of those extra features and super high OC's with the robustness of the motherboards. Can't cut corners!

...he's not wrong though...

you see all those rounded corners on the IHS? That just shouts "Unreliable". I got my eyes opened now.
God damn! They're literally cutting corners, the bastards!
    
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Various] AMD’s Zen Eight Core CPU Delivers Double the Performance of the FX 8350 (Update 2)