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[Various] AMD’s Zen Eight Core CPU Delivers Double the Performance of the FX 8350 (Update 2) - Page 47

post #461 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Power draw was measured with some fancy equipment I barely knew how to use tongue.gif I was working with a retired Air Force engineer and all of his equipment - and the benefit of his knowledge. I/O and RF would certainly be in the 1W area, combined, but it still shows that 100% conversion to heat is not reality.

The greatest loss of conversion efficiency (to heat) would be to the ground plane - those electrons aren't creating heat in the CPU.
Not quite sure I understand where current and voltage were being measured. I wouldn't consider the ground plane of the motherboard part of CPU power consumption, though I would consider dissipation in the ground plane of the CPU itself part of that.

CPU power consumption is hard enough to measure that basically none of the tech sites do it. The closest I've seen is anandtech testing mobile SoCs. Most of the power consumption figures I've seen in CPU reviews are total system usage or manufacturer supplied data.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 6/5/16 at 9:32pm
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post #462 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

Not quite sure I understand where current and voltage were being measured. I wouldn't consider the ground plane of the motherboard part of CPU power consumption, though I would consider dissipation in the ground plane of the CPU itself part of that.

CPU power consumption is hard enough to measure that basically none of the tech sites do it. The closest I've seen is anandtech testing mobile SoCs. Most of the power consumption figures I've seen in CPU reviews are total system usage or manufacturer supplied data.

This was back in the slotted CPU era, which made this a much easier proposition.

Also, I think it may seem like I am saying that the total conversion efficiency is low - it's not, it's insanely high (98% or so), but the conversion within the CPU, itself, is not 100%. The electrons escape the CPU without imparting their energy within the CPU. A modern CPU, though, should make this less likely - an electron entering a CPU without doing some work is a worthless electron.
post #463 of 564
It could happen if the CPU package, acted as a capacitor at certain areas and/or as an inductor in others, but there is enough grounding to avoid that, i believe.
Anyway i don't think that the capacitance/induction of the cpu as a whole is higher than 5% of its power consumption, so power consumed should be equal to heat generated on desktop CPUs.
Edited by Marios145 - 6/6/16 at 2:32am
post #464 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles View Post

Last I read, the baseline is Bristol Ridge.

Bristol Ridge uses Excavator...
post #465 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

This was back in the slotted CPU era, which made this a much easier proposition.

Also, I think it may seem like I am saying that the total conversion efficiency is low - it's not, it's insanely high (98% or so), but the conversion within the CPU, itself, is not 100%. The electrons escape the CPU without imparting their energy within the CPU. A modern CPU, though, should make this less likely - an electron entering a CPU without doing some work is a worthless electron.

AMD has some sort of fabric technology they incorporated in their new chips to reduce the power of their massive 28nm dies to keep them somewhat Intel relevant. Do they have to redesign that implementation when using it in a new fabrication process or architecture?
Edited by SpeedyVT - 6/6/16 at 4:02am
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post #466 of 564
AMD is pretty confident with ZEN, despite all problems with FX marketing.

Well most poeple dont believe that AMD can do better, but the problem was most people believed that INTEL wont catch AMD... INTEL showed with Core Dou that "everything" is possible.

I just hope that they really focused on FPU (AVX,SSE)
post #467 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

This was back in the slotted CPU era, which made this a much easier proposition.

Also, I think it may seem like I am saying that the total conversion efficiency is low - it's not, it's insanely high (98% or so), but the conversion within the CPU, itself, is not 100%. The electrons escape the CPU without imparting their energy within the CPU. A modern CPU, though, should make this less likely - an electron entering a CPU without doing some work is a worthless electron.
That is literally not possible. What your describing there is a 0-resistance superconducting path from core voltage to ground, if such a path existed, you would have a direct short the moment you turned your computer on and all CPU v-core power would be shunted directly to ground.

Please read up on resistance, super conductors and semi-conductor leakage.
post #468 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by jincuteguy View Post

Because I feel like Intel has a more robust micro architecture and features besides the clock speed, and more reliable. Even for motherboards, I feel like Intel motherboards are more robust, I feel like my money is well spent on Intel side than Amd.

I just feel like Amd cut a corner somewhere to bring down the price compare to Intel and Nvidia.
That's one of the reason why I don't buy Amd video cards either, I always go with Nvidia cards, even though they're more expensive.

Motherboards are made by the various companies and there is no proof of intel being more robust than AMD boards.

You've either had one or two poor boards from AMD and jumped to a conclusion, or you've convinced yourself of it based on a love of intel. I dare say it's the latter as your post sounds naive.

AMD doesn't cut corners on it's GPU manufacturing (except reference coolers - Just like Nvidia does)

Your feelings seem to be driven by emotion not by facts on the companies. Hard to take you seriously.
post #469 of 564
Pls AMD win the CPU war this time, Would be a lovely change.
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post #470 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

What is causing the extra heat load when you operate a cpu at the same voltages , under the same load, but increase the clockspeed?

It takes more current to do more work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrwulf View Post

You can't increase clock speed without increasing voltage somewhere.

Yes, you can. Indeed, voltages will often be lower as temperatures and resistance rises, even in the absence of things like vdroop, if you keep supply voltage constant but increase clock speeds and/or the load on the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

A modern CPU, though, should make this less likely - an electron entering a CPU without doing some work is a worthless electron.

Less power does work in modern CPUs than past CPUs. Leakage power as a percentage of total power has been rising exponentially.

Go back to 1995 and 90%+ of the power dissipated by a CPU was used to switch transistors. It's about 10-30% now, in high-performance parts. Of course, transistor switching power requirements have been decreasing even faster, so performance per watt keeps going up, but there have had to be many innovations to prevent leakage current from outpacing those gains.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [Various] AMD’s Zen Eight Core CPU Delivers Double the Performance of the FX 8350 (Update 2)