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[VideoCardz] AMD Radeon RX 480 to cost 199 USD - Page 55  

post #541 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

I may see this too much from the enthusiastic side. Please have mercy on my opinion wink.gif
There are cards in the pipepline at AMD for sure. Yet these are not ready and will be released at a later point in time. Cold be the smaller Vega chip. Sadly the date for release could be any time within the next 9 months. Not everybody is willing to wait that long if the 1070 is available soon.

Well,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

It's 2x performance per watt as we saw from a slide, so 480 will equal 390. It won't match 980 as some here hope.

It may in VR. Tests need to be run.
post #542 of 1250
Their announcement of the 480 is hilarious.
They were talking about 2x 480s potentially being faster than a single 1080 in AOTS, while we all know that the DX12 CFX/SLI has been an issue and will continue being an issue. So those are pretty hollow promises.

Also if the 480 is going to give 6% performance in CFX over 1080, it means it will be most likely just around the 290/970 performance.
Also their presentation say 150W, which is the 1070 performance, so I don't get it.

So... there is pretty much nothing amazing in the 480 announcement. No high end GPU, nothing great in performance, only pretty much a price cut on the 290/380 performance bracket. They could just cut the price of the left over stocks of the 380 and get almost the same results.

So underwhelming... I was hoping for a 490x or something at 300$ with 980 ti performance.
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post #543 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Their announcement of the 480 is hilarious.
They were talking about 2x 480s potentially being faster than a single 1080 in AOTS, while we all know that the DX12 CFX/SLI has been an issue and will continue being an issue. So those are pretty hollow promises.

Also if the 480 is going to give 6% performance in CFX over 1080, it means it will be most likely just around the 290/970 performance.
Also their presentation say 150W, which is the 1070 performance, so I don't get it.

So... there is pretty much nothing amazing in the 480 announcement. No high end GPU, nothing great in performance, only pretty much a price cut on the 290/380 performance bracket. They could just cut the price of the left over stocks of the 380 and get almost the same results.

So underwhelming... I was hoping for a 490x or something at 300$ with 980 ti performance.

6% over the 1080 at 51% GPU utilization. We already know this will be at least 980 performance.
Edited by variant - 5/31/16 at 11:26pm
post #544 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes5 View Post

Sometimes these posts can be smart but you mad waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many assumptions.

Also polaris 10 is going into PS4 neo, NX and the new xbox so ... lol? Looks like console-makers did help cover part of the R&D and also are pushing yields higher by guaranteeing th esales of millions of wafers.

But then again, I am pulling out of my ass too. Only I am aware of it and not making absurd pronouncements based on a chain of assumptions.

All we need to know is it takes 38 dollars for Apple to make a a9x which is a die about 58% smaller than Polaris 10. Considering how pricing and yields work, a chip 60 percent larger is easily double the costs and then some. I looked at papers on the subject, and this isn't just pulling costs out of my ass.

There isn't that many assumption. The 6870 was actually a lower power part as well and used 110 watts in gaming and power and memory bus are what ultimately determine BOM of PCB. If anything the price of these things have possibly risen due to inflation over time.

Also if you looked at some of my posts about the performance of this chip, they were bang on.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1598515/game-debate-rumour-amd-polaris-10-reportedly-offers-near-980-ti-performance-for-300-usd/480#post_25139944

The problem for AMD is their performance per transistor is inferior to Nvidias which is well represented by the gulf between the gtx 980/380x. 5.2 billion transistors vs 5 billion respectively and Nvidia card is 51% faster or in the case of the gtx 970 vs 380x which is more representative of the upcoming launch of the 480x vs 1070, 30% faster with the gtx 970 consuming less watts to boot.

If we look at the performance of the 1070x vs the 390x, its actually around 30%. And the more and more information that comes out, the more likely this card appears to be around 390x/gtx 980 performance. Compare this to what everyone else is predicting, as fast as gtx 980 ti to competitive or faster than the gp104 with earlier predictions.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1599864/vrworld-amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-on-14nm-cpu-and-polaris/50#post_25150677

"Your over estimating the savings for energy and heat creation. Laptop version of pitcairns were still about 850 - 900 mhz clocks And desktop clocks were 1000mhz. So 1150-1200 would be taking that into account."

Taking into account todays information, of 5.5tflops.

2304cores * 2 * 1.2ghz = 5.52tflops. So my prediction about this again was accurate.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1594256/digitimes-amd-expected-to-unveil-polaris-gpu-in-june/20#post_24980545

"What if all that comes out this year from AMD is a polaris chip that has hawaii like performance and a low end card. AMD said they have two new chips this year and it has been confirmed one of them is a pitcairn sized chip(the one that offers VR performance for $300) and the other I am guessing is a even smaller chip that is more suitable for the laptop market? Fury hasn't been on the shelf long enough for AMD to make their money back. It is staying around."

I also said similar things about 232mm2 being big polaris, and the smaller die being, for OEMS and laptops that no one believed at the time. People kept on saying, AMD is going to release a gp104 competitor with Polaris, AMD isn't stupid. Your stupid. And low and behold, I was again proven correct. This was like 3 months ago almost.

I also said AMD would not be using HBM for Polaris, unlike some people with insider information like Mahigan who said polaris was going to get HBM. Guess my deduction was better than insider information.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1594965/oc3d-amd-polaris-10-engineering-sample-pictured/40#post_24998646

The only prediction I got wrong about Polaris 10 is the pricing but that was because I didn't expect Nvidia to release the gtx 1070 at $379.

The point is I use deduction to come to my conclusion and hardly pull things out of my ass. AMD fanboys, don't like what I post because it goes against the optimistic rumors. But if they actually took time to read my long posts, they would see what I am posting is not negative but the most realistic outcome given the facts and most likely rumors.

Getting back to my original post on this, do you think it makes sense for these cards to be 200-250 when pitcairns, which was a chip about 10% smaller than Polaris 10 started at 350 dollars at launch, when wafer prices were $5000 vs $8000 today? Volume means nothing when profit margins are so low. The pricing of Polaris is the result of being 20-30% slower than a gtx 1070 and being the inferior brand in consumers eyes.
Edited by tajoh111 - 5/31/16 at 11:39pm
post #545 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Their announcement of the 480 is hilarious.
They were talking about 2x 480s potentially being faster than a single 1080 in AOTS, while we all know that the DX12 CFX/SLI has been an issue and will continue being an issue. So those are pretty hollow promises.

Also if the 480 is going to give 6% performance in CFX over 1080, it means it will be most likely just around the 290/970 performance.
Also their presentation say 150W, which is the 1070 performance, so I don't get it.

So... there is pretty much nothing amazing in the 480 announcement. No high end GPU, nothing great in performance, only pretty much a price cut on the 290/380 performance bracket. They could just cut the price of the left over stocks of the 380 and get almost the same results.

So underwhelming... I was hoping for a 490x or something at 300$ with 980 ti performance.

You got to stick to nVidia for that. The 1070 beats your 980 Ti for $380 before taxes and other fees. yah.
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post #546 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

The problem for AMD is their performance per transistor is inferior to Nvidias which is well represented by the gulf between the gtx 980/380x. 5.2 billion transistors vs 5 billion respectively and Nvidia card is 51% faster or in the case of the gtx 970 vs 380x which is more representative of the upcoming launch of the 480x vs 1070, 30% faster with the gtx 970 consuming less watts to boot.

Uhh... the R9 390X has 6.2b transistors and it comes ahead of GTX 980 in many benchmarks.

so the difference isn't that much.


and don't forget that GTX 780 Ti also has a whopping 7.2b transistors and it sucks ass in every new games.
Edited by Travieso - 5/31/16 at 11:41pm
post #547 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by variant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon View Post



Around GM204 efficiency, 150W is the 1070 TDP too with way better results, seems Pascal beats Polaris easily regarding power efficiency and performance.
200$ for the 4GB version is a good news but I guess they have no choice to do anything else.
RX480 will compete with GTX 1060, certainly not what people expected from start, with more optimistic expectations.
Clocks looks really low for 150W 14nm though.

We were just through this. AMD uses max power while Nvidia uses average. The 1070 as an example uses a max of 224W power during gaming. The 480 has a 6-pin connector which is 75W and the PCI-e which is 75W for a total of 150W, and the 1070 has a 8-pin connector which is 150W for a total of 225W.

Did you ignore all the posts showing you benchmarks that the 1070 drawing its stated TDP +/- 10W. It never draws what its power connectors are maximally spec'd for.

161W at the wall (less after PSU efficiencies are accounted for)
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_1070_review,8.html
Quote:
Mind you, the system wattage is measured at the wall socket side and there are other variables like PSU power efficiency. So this is an estimated value, albeit a very good one. Below, a chart of relative power consumption. Again, the Wattage shown is the card with the GPU(s) stressed 100%, showing only the peak GPU power draw, not the power consumption of the entire PC and not the average gaming power consumption.
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post #548 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travieso View Post

Uhh... the R9 390X has 6.2b transistors and it comes ahead of GTX 980 in many benchmarks.

so the difference isn't that much.

and don't forget that GTX 780 Ti also has a whopping 7.2b transistors and it sucks ass in every new games.

That's because AMD pushes their cards much more with the 390x vs the gtx 980, which results in the tremendous gap in performance per watt. Also the gtx 980 is bottlenecked big time because of it's memory bandwidth.

And this post was relating specifically the performance delta between polaris 10 to gp104 is going to be similar to the performance delta between a gtx 980 vs 380x. The gp104 when normalized with the polaris 10 die size(taking into account the increased transistor density of 14nm finfet vs 16nm) share striking similarities with that relationship. A gtx 980 is about 40-50% faster than a 380x.

If a polaris 10 chip is as fast as a 390x/980, a 1080x will be 50+% faster than it like Tonga vs gm104.

The gtx 780 ti sucking so badly for it's transistor density is combination of planned obsoletence from Nvidia and allowing and telling their partners to employ global illumination in all their new games. Global illumination was a feature that AMD excelled at, but Nvidia sucked at. This can be seen in games like hitman absolution, dirt rally, and sleeping dogs. When Keplar was Nvidia's lead architecture, Nvidia got developers to pull the feature and use other methods. With maxwell this all changed and all of a sudden Nvidia was better at it. So Nvidia didn't block the feature anymore and more and more games included it. Add in nvidia not optimizing for keplar anymore because their own cards were the biggest upgrading obstacle, and you have why kepler suck so much now compared to when it was first released.
Edited by tajoh111 - 5/31/16 at 11:58pm
post #549 of 1250
If you can afford 1000$ VR sets, I don't see why you will not take a 379$ 1070 with way better performance, no need to go multi-gpu with GP104.
VR for masses is a marketing trick from AMD to hide the facts that they can't compete in other segment than mainstream.
VR is not ready for masses though, it's a small niche market right now.
post #550 of 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

You got to stick to nVidia for that. The 1070 beats your 980 Ti for $380 before taxes and other fees. yah.

Don't be so sure about that.
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