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[Techspot] Samsung's new 512GB solid state drive is impossibly tiny - Page 5

post #41 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

You're drastically underestimating how long standard dual-layer NAND can last. I can see you'd have a point if this was about use in an enterprise environment, but then SLC NAND is usually used there for that reason, anyway.

I like home stuff enterprise rated duty biggrin.gif
post #42 of 93
Now if only every gadget came with one of those. Like cameras, phones, eink readers, ...
post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankzro View Post

Ok, but they solve the heating issue for laptops? You guys do realise SSDs get super hot right?

You think they solved that issue yet?

That has a whole heck of a lot more to do with how this drive is implemented than the drive itself. This thing does not look like a user replaceable drive so the cooling would need to be designed by who ever is making the laptop/tablet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

I like home stuff enterprise rated duty biggrin.gif

Which means absolutely nothing if you are using the drive like a typical home users. No matter what the SSD is marketed for (home or enterprise), it's your actual usage that determines it's lifespan. I'm guessing you would probably want to replace the motherboard and/or processor before you have written a petabyte or two to the nand.


My problem is that I don't want to lose a drive when I change processors or motherboards, I would rather deal with cables.
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post #44 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

You're drastically underestimating how long standard dual-layer NAND can last. I can see you'd have a point if this was about use in an enterprise environment, but then SLC NAND is usually used there for that reason, anyway.

if you were to use the more durable NAND types then yes a dozen years or so wouldn't wear it out.
but on the other hand you'd be inflating the price drastically as well, i wouldn't expect it to be on a consumer CPU anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post

Which means absolutely nothing if you are using the drive like a typical home users. No matter what the SSD is marketed for (home or enterprise), it's your actual usage that determines it's lifespan. I'm guessing you would probably want to replace the motherboard and/or processor before you have written a petabyte or two to the nand.


My problem is that I don't want to lose a drive when I change processors or motherboards, I would rather deal with cables.

not to mention on-die NAND wouldn't be that much more beneficial than a PCI-e SSD.
sure it'll have lower latencies, but what workload requires such a decrease in latency?

NAND would still be slower than DRAM even if it were to be mounted on-die, otherwise why would SSDs have a DRAM cache?
and with that in mind it can easily be imagined what minimal gains would this give at the cost of inflated price.
it would be better if it was an on-die cache dedicated for masking access latency (hi eDRAM), that would be much better utilized at much less cost, plus it doesn't wear out like NAND.
Edited by epic1337 - 6/1/16 at 1:51pm
post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

if you were to use the more durable NAND types then yes a dozen years or so wouldn't wear it out.
but on the other hand you'd be inflating the price drastically as well, i wouldn't expect it to be on a consumer CPU anytime soon.
not to mention on-die NAND wouldn't be that much more beneficial than a PCI-e SSD.
sure it'll have lower latencies, but what workload requires such a decrease in latency?

NAND would still be slower than DRAM even if it were to be mounted on-die, otherwise why would SSDs have a DRAM cache?
and with that in mind it can easily be imagined what minimal gains would this give at the cost of inflated price.
it would be better if it was an on-die cache dedicated for masking access latency (hi eDRAM), that would be much better utilized at much less cost, plus it doesn't wear out like NAND.

Enterprise requires that decrease in latency. I can't remember if it was in conjunction with Knight's Landing Phi or something else but there was a paper that intel released stating that eDRAM was a stepping stone to much higher on-chip storage capacities that would use future iterations of NAND/some future tech that may replace NAND.

Intel wants to put a terabyte of storage or more on their Big Enterprise Chip solutions, current designs are just transition stages on getting to that point and eDRAM is already being replaced in design stages.

If I'm not mistaken Xpoint/Optane is one of those :"future techs" that Intel is replacing eDRAM with, which is very likely.
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post #46 of 93
i'm pretty sure it wasn't NAND-type that they were talking about, more like a non-volatile DRAM substitute.
post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

i'm pretty sure it wasn't NAND-type that they were talking about, more like a non-volatile DRAM substitute.

Xpoint is a 3D NAND that they're labeling as non-volatile.

Ask and you shall receive.
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post #48 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Xpoint is a 3D NAND that they're labeling as non-volatile.

Ask and you shall receive.

that shouldn't be right, the closest to what Intel and Micron had said is that they're denying that its neither phase-change or resistive-ram.
but all hints had pointed to Xpoint being phase-change, or at least a variant of phase-change.

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/servers-storage/intel-and-micron-unveil-new-memory-type-3d-xpoint/94517.fullarticle
Quote:
3D XPoint (pronounced ‘crosspoint’) memory does not feature transistors and does not trap electrons to store data. Instead, it relies on layers of switch and memory cell materials that can permanently change their state.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Storage/IDF-Shenzhen-Intel-Demos-3D-XPoint-Optane-File-Copy-2-GBs
Quote:
At IDF Shenzhen, Intel talked more about 3D XPoint (spoken cross-point). Initially launched in July of last year, 3D XPoint is essentially a form of phase change memory which has speeds closer to that of DRAM.

Edited by epic1337 - 6/1/16 at 3:07pm
post #49 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

that shouldn't be right, the closest to what Intel and Micron had said is that they're denying that its neither phase-change or resistive-ram.
but all hints had pointed to Xpoint being phase-change, or at least a variant of phase-change.

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/servers-storage/intel-and-micron-unveil-new-memory-type-3d-xpoint/94517.fullarticle
http://www.pcper.com/news/Storage/IDF-Shenzhen-Intel-Demos-3D-XPoint-Optane-File-Copy-2-GBs

Good god that first article is out of date. How have you missed all of the marketing that intel has been pumping out about Xpoint/Optane? They won't shut up about it. They even did a presentation at computex.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/non-volatile-memory.html

I mean.... When Intel lists it on their own website as non-volatile memory, and 3D NAND, there's not much you can argue with.
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post #50 of 93
where exactly do they say XPoint was 3D NAND? all i see is they're comparing XPoint to 3D NAND.
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