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[TR] Nvidia CEO: VR immersion problems 20 years from being solved - Page 14

post #131 of 207
As long as I have to strap something to my head to use it atm I won't be bothered. Holodecks = thumb.gif Anyway who knows how far it will go in the future.
post #132 of 207
Since I have absolutely zero interested in VR (getting easily motion sick, hate wearing stuff like glasses on my head.. etc.) I can side with Nvidia on this. They sound salty about the RX480 though. Imho he is right when he says VR is 20 years off. I absolutely agree with that.

I am more of an analog gamer. I love old games and the way we use(d) to play them. Sitting with a controller or mouse&keyboard playing a game is perfect for me. The more they are trying to immerse us into it the worse it gets. They are not able to deliver any good games nowadays that are comparable to old ones and they are trying to add additional layers of depth to it with those clunky headsets. I will always value quality and substance over added extra effects. Movies are a good example. Is there any single good movie with "3D" in the name?

You can really tell with Every single game gets delayed. 99% of AAA games turn out to be subpar. They don't even have enough time to finish normal games. How can we expect them to add a whole new dimension without sacrificing other things?

For me VR (right now) is the same as 3D gaming and mobile gaming and I am glad that no good developer/publisher is comitting to VR.
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post #133 of 207
VR stuff is not new and never worked, you look like a perfect idiot when wearing all this stuff, i prefer to see and touch real things, and for my amusement i have no problem grabbing a good controller (btw i recently ordered the xbox one "elite" controller, that is where my stupid money goes).

Edit: VR for scientific and medicine applications could serve well, just VR for gaming is meh for me, immersion from gaming comes from the contrast with the surrounding for me. Paradoxical but true.
Edited by TUFinside - 6/1/16 at 12:45pm
post #134 of 207
Take-Two's CEO (2K/Rockstar) weighs in on VR, doesn't sound very impressed

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1226631
Quote:
"It's way too expensive right now," he said to an audience of analysts and investors. "There is no market for a $2000 entertainment device that requires you to dedicate a room to the activity. I don't know what people could be thinking. Maybe some of the people in this room have a room to dedicate to an entertainment activity, but back here in the real world? That's not what we have in America."

Quote:
"We have like $300 to spend on an entertainment device and we do not have a dedicated room. We have a room for a screen, a couch, and controllers," he added. "We don't have something where you stand in a big open space and hold two controllers with something on your head--and not crash into the coffee table. We don't have that."

Quote:
"I think for a core gamer, it could be a wonderful experience; someone who really likes to be immersed," Zelnick said at the time. "But a lot of people who play video games, for example my kids, they play with their friends sitting next to them, so that technology is not going to appeal to them. So I think it's very much a core technology."
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post #135 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

unless $199 RX480 offers the same VR framerates as GTX1070/1080 (highly doubt it), i don't even know what are you all arguing about. you all make it sound like RX480 is suddenly on par with 1070 without even any shred of proof (well actually early leaks put it way behind 1070) rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

ok, so this thread is worthless then because it's just a big free for all of "let's interpret what JHH said in our way".


Who expects a card ALMOST HALF the price to beat the 1070?

Fact of the matter is Jen-Hsun just stated publicly that the whole mobile market,unless it is surrounded by a car is not worth bothering with. He thinks specializing in making computer tech for something you can't even use while driving is the future. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post


Erm, so, when Nvidia announced the 1080...All of you speculated it wouldn't be that good, talked it down...Talked it down as a united forum actually...Then when it launched and the hype was real, everyone freaked out.

Now that AMD is pushing a new offering, it's OMG OMG OMG OMG AMD IS GUUUUUUUUUUD NVIDIA GREEEEED SUCKKKKKKKKKS...Yet, AMD factually has oversold their product on the last few launches...By a firm margin...

Yet we'll drink the red cool-aid over the green all day long.

See the issue yet?

Are you saying the 1080 is a success? I'm not impressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

I'll be blunt.

We have had viable HMDs for decades. The problem, though, is that they cost thirty to forty grand a pop, because they're being used by the military and they have stringent requirements that necessitate a far higher standard of engineering than something like Oculus Rift will go through.

No joke, my former boss got a request handed down to him from the director of the research lab I was working for that came from a member of Congress, asking why we were spending all this money developing HMDs when his son was able to buy a Rift for $1500.

The answer is not that the technology isn't out there, but rather that it can't be made cheaply enough for commercial markets yet. There are significant size and weight challenges, in particular, that require very expensive components that are hard to manufacture. We can harp about dropping prices in tech all we want, but the reality is that these systems are expensive for legitimate reasons (and not simply to milk the government of money).

I think 20 years is optimistic for commercially-viable successful immersion, and I've seen better HMDs than any of you probably have and understand the engineering challenges and difficulties in their implementation.

You basically just outlined why it will succeed now vs before. The private sector tech was not their before. It is now, and with the whole industry working together, the cost of those components along with advancements in tech will make it affordable. No government has had 14/16nm tech until recently.thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Oh I understand what you were implying...And I sort of agree with you...It doesn't change the legitimacy of the issues though and most of those are very REAL issues.

Nor does it change the fact that the 480 is unproven...

That being said, 20 years is a bit much but, consumer technology tends to be 5/10 years behind...I'd say in 10 years the vast majority of the kinks will be worked out...

So you agree Jen-Hsun is wrong. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

How are AMD making it more available?

The 970 could not for the life of it be able to support a full high resolution VR like the fury x / 980 TI / 1070 / 1080 even with 8GB full memory, and that is exactly where the new 480 is in terms of performance.
Yes, it is going to cost 200$ for the 4GB version (which is far from being enough for VR at current resolutions). It still won't have the power in any way. And two of those? Might as well buy a 1070 which will cost far less.

There is no forward into low entry market with the 480. It is just a cheap card with ok performance for 1440p at best. Not for 4K and not for VR. And for 400$ for two 480s with 4GB each? Might as well buy a 1070 for cheaper, get less micro stuttering and get more memory for better performance at higher resolutions.

And yes, you have to start somewhere. This is why the current top end cards will give you the performance you need. Not the low end cards.
Yet even then, the 1080 will not be able on its own to give you real life like resolution for VR and extreme image quality at very high fps numbers to give you real immerse feeling. It just not is. There are tons of techs still need to get into it, like better screens, better immersion, more "horse power" of the GPUs.

Again, the 480 will not be any VR low entry good card at 200$. Unless what you call good entry level is what we got like 10 years ago on current tech of VR, compared to the new top end cards.
Besides, tbh, I doubt someone willing to pay 200$ for a card, will pay the premium money on rift, vive, or some of the niche low end VR headsets which will end up just a novelty "buy one get one for free" items which will just stay at the desk unused because of low quality build/screens/headaches from bad unstable fps.

You do realise AMD does not have resolution problems like Maxwell had right? Nvidia is the one who had sub-par performance when the resolution is cranked up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

VR stuff is not new and never worked, you look like a perfect idiot when wearing all this stuff, i prefer to see and touch real things, and for my amusement i have no problem grabbing a good controller (btw i recently ordered the xbox one "elite" controller, that is where my stupid money goes).

Edit: VR for scientific and medicine applications could serve well, just VR for gaming is meh for me, immersion from gaming comes from the contrast with the surrounding for me. Paradoxical but true.

Who said VR is intended only for gaming? People with a clue know the real deal,the rest just spout this "20 years" nonsense.. Anybody that thinks it's going to take 20 years to increase resolution and make small components powerful enough is an imbecile. Or lying.
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post #136 of 207
As soon as NV shows weakness, their crowd turns on them.

They've been too successful lately; they're getting lazy. They can't let Jen out without a script the day after AMD makes a big announcement like that.

The only thing that really makes NV better than AMD is their image. When all things are marginally equal, NV still wins. Even when NV loses, like with Tahiti and GK104, people will often still convince themselves that NV wins.

If NV loses that image they've built up for so long, they lose everything.

They'd better be careful here.
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post #137 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

Take-Two's CEO (2K/Rockstar) weighs in on VR, doesn't sound very impressed

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1226631
Quote:
"It's way too expensive right now," he said to an audience of analysts and investors. "There is no market for a $2000 entertainment device that requires you to dedicate a room to the activity. I don't know what people could be thinking. Maybe some of the people in this room have a room to dedicate to an entertainment activity, but back here in the real world? That's not what we have in America."

Quote:
"We have like $300 to spend on an entertainment device and we do not have a dedicated room. We have a room for a screen, a couch, and controllers," he added. "We don't have something where you stand in a big open space and hold two controllers with something on your head--and not crash into the coffee table. We don't have that."

Quote:
"I think for a core gamer, it could be a wonderful experience; someone who really likes to be immersed," Zelnick said at the time. "But a lot of people who play video games, for example my kids, they play with their friends sitting next to them, so that technology is not going to appeal to them. So I think it's very much a core technology."

Bingo. It seems pretty evident and only speaks to the massive cognitive dissonance some people have nowadays.


Also, I don't understand what the big controversy is with the comments from Nvidia. Raja Koduri said things in the same direction, even quoted someone from Google that said that VR represents at least a decade of job security:



It's true that Jen could have said that the processing power simply isn't there yet to make things photo realistic + very high resolution, 8 or 16 K + high refresh rate, 120 - 240 Hz + high amounts of memory and bandwidth + even lower latency, so in essence there really isn't much you can do right now and in the immediate future to really get there without the hardware. They can find some shortcuts, but they can only get so much out of them.

In a way, he concentrated on what the rest of the industry has to do instead of focusing on the above, which would be negative to their PR (even though it's obvious, but still). Part of the problem has to be solved by better and cheaper displays, 8K and 16K ones, both traditional monitors and VR headsets. Then game developers also have to do their work and make better experiences.

I'm glad Nvidia doesn't seem interested in solving all of the problems themselves as that would run the risk of we ending up with more proprietary tech. Having G-Sync on the one hand and Oculus behaving in a disgraceful way (it's owned by Facebook, so not that surprising) on the other is enough.
Edited by tpi2007 - 6/1/16 at 2:55pm
 
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post #138 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post


Who said VR is intended only for gaming? People with a clue know the real deal,the rest just spout this "20 years" nonsense.. Anybody that thinks it's going to take 20 years to increase resolution and make small components powerful enough is an imbecile. Or lying.
I think VR is going to advance much quicker than people expect, or faster than Jen can downplay(due to competition). We will be increasing resolution and increased FOV very quickly. Wireless solution may take a little longer. Even longer still for compact sunglasses size high-end VR. Can't wait!
Edited by Swolern - 6/1/16 at 3:06pm
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post #139 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

I think VR is going to advance much quicker than people expect, or faster than Jen can downplay(due to competition). We will be increasing resolution and increased FOV very quickly. Wireless solution may take a little longer. Can't wait!

Everybody is complaining about resolution but resolution isn't holding VR back, GPUs are. There are already 4k headsets out there but it takes a pair of Titan X's and a 5960x to display a static environment at 60fps.

They also ran about $4000 a pop, last I checked.

http://vrunion.com/

So yeah, go ahead and get on the waiting list and set up your $10,000 VR Machine if the only thing that's holding you back is resolution.
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post #140 of 207
lol at people thinking they are going to get great performance in vr for $199.

Marketing buzz words.
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