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I'm interviewing Logitech tonight, what do you want to ask them? - Page 11  

post #101 of 114
Thanks for taking the time to answer what questions you could, Chris.

I appreciated your candor in many instances when you would say a peripheral was made a certain way or had a certain feature simply because that would make it sell better. Refreshing as opposed to certain companies/individuals who shall remain nameless that try to spin every facet of their devices as some kind of brilliant design choice that was made for only the holiest of reasons and had nothing to do with $$

One thing I want to say is when they asked you about PS/2 keyboards during the stream, I wasn't asking for a Logitech keyboard that only supports PS/2. I meant keyboards like Das Keyboard that support both the USB and PS/2 interfaces and protocols, select the appropriate connection at device power-on, but are shipped with only the USB cable and a passive PS/2 wiring adapter.

There are a lot of people out there like me who would never consider buying a nice, new mechanical keyboard for gaming if it didn't have this feature. I imagine that it entails a very slight amount of extra programming, wiring, and design consideration and is relevant mainly to a pretty niche customer group. But for people in that niche, who tend to spend inordinate amounts of money searching for the 'perfect' peripherals, not having PS/2 support is a certain deal-breaker. Being that it is getting harder and harder to find new, high-end mechanical keyboards being made with native, passive PS/2 support, I would wager that whatever small, initial extra investment it entails would be easily recouped many times over.
Edited by VolsAndJezuz - 6/3/16 at 12:20am
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post #102 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPate View Post

Not sure what the specific issue is here - F710 is a pure XInput controller that doesn't require a Logitech driver unless for some reason you need a DirectInput controller for a specific game that has vibration feedback, or if you want to remap gamepad controls to keyboard keystrokes or something. For all other situations the OS driver should work fine.

There are specific issues. I don't want to clutter the thread so I'm going to send you a PM if you can help trying to iron it out.
post #103 of 114
I wasn't trying to convey "sell better" so much as "make more people happy" but ultimately I guess it turns into the same thing. We have finite resources for product development and we have to make difficult choices about the things we do and don't do. I try to integrate as many different viewpoints as I can into the product development process but at the end of the day it's difficult to make everyone happy - particularly if hard historical data seemingly disagrees with popular sentiment.

Case in point - with regard to PS/2, I wasn't assuming a primarily PS/2 device either. My recollection thinking back to the original G15 design process (though I could be incorrect as I haven't looked at it for a few years) is that PS/2 both does not permit for the same kind of bidirectional device control or have adequate power to provide backlighting for keyboards. The time required to implement the support for the feature combined with the confusion that would be caused for many people who aren't enthusiasts and won't understand the limitations of the port outweigh the convenience and enjoyment to the people who find it preferable to use that port. It's not my preference to make such a decision, but it's unfortunately necessary at times.
post #104 of 114
Why aren't there new versions of K280e, their BEST keyboard? smile.gif
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post #105 of 114
id like to either a get my mouse done by logitech as a 3rd party outsource or be learn to do this my self iv got the cad designs circuits done i decided to use the sensor of the mlt04 with gyroscope as v1 v2 same sensor as kinzu v3 = 3366 modified with some prediction that it needed to be more like the mlt04 i think the concept of 0 prediction 0 accell is allmost backwards why do u want to use more point effort when you play just enough so u dont kill your arm right isnt it why the mlt04 still rocks it runs with prediction and a tiny bit of accell might be wrong on the accell but still.
post #106 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPate View Post

Case in point - with regard to PS/2, I wasn't assuming a primarily PS/2 device either. My recollection thinking back to the original G15 design process (though I could be incorrect as I haven't looked at it for a few years) is that PS/2 both does not permit for the same kind of bidirectional device control or have adequate power to provide backlighting for keyboards. The time required to implement the support for the feature combined with the confusion that would be caused for many people who aren't enthusiasts and won't understand the limitations of the port outweigh the convenience and enjoyment to the people who find it preferable to use that port. It's not my preference to make such a decision, but it's unfortunately necessary at times.

I won't purport to know enough about PS/2 to argue the finer points of design decisions in its regard, but that scenario seems plausible to me. It's funny how much of a role 'bling' plays in product development nowadays. Apologies for the incoming double negative, but personally I don't see how people don't find keyboard backlighting to be obnoxious and distracting. I don't even like my keycaps to have their corresponding characters printed or engraved. I guess I'm a bit of a philistine in the modern peripherals industry, so my opinions on the matter should probably be taken with a heaping handful of salt.

I would think a good way to provide the desirability of PS/2 support, without the potential confusion to the lay user and without complicating feature implementation, would be to 'silently' implement basic PS/2 support. Meaning it is capable of working when used with a common USB to PS/2 adapter, but the adapter is not included with the product, so as not to confuse non-enthusiasts. And the PS/2 support is intentionally designed and communicated as minimal, meaning that it just is able to do the raw, necessary keyboard functions when using that interface, so you need not worry about implementing PS/2 support for bells and whistles like backlighting. Because the type of user who would be concerned with PS/2 support will most likely have little concern for such features that do not contribute to functionality or performance.
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post #107 of 114
i dont think you understand why ic2 / usb type c and or other forms for the extreme gamer the amount of delay would require a audriono board built into the keyboard like a raspberry pi due to software limit ions you would require a real time os first direct input into the master slave. its why i wanted cpate to help the maker crowd learn a abit about this design process we could help achive some real time results with a basic board like the pi3 we can load that into a keyboard run it through a cable ic2 then run it into the mobo via master slave software wise in implementation it would make the pc think the usb port is master slave due to the ic2 to master implementation via software with something like a audriono prossor even.
Edited by omar231 - 6/3/16 at 2:45am
post #108 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by omar231 View Post

i dont think you understand why ic2 / usb type c and or other forms for the extreme gamer the amount of delay would require a audriono board built into the keyboard like a raspberry pi due to software limit ions you would require a real time os first direct input into the master slave. its why i wanted cpate to help the maker crowd learn a abit about this design process we could help achive some real time results with a basic board like the pi3 we can load that into a keyboard run it through a cable ic2 then run it into the mobo via master slave software wise in implementation it would make the pc think the usb port is master slave due to the ic2 to master implementation via software with something like a audriono prossor even.

Sorry, but could you use a bit more inter-punctuation? It is really tough to read your paragraphs and understand them.
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post #109 of 114
The thing about keyboards to is that they last so long. I bought a ps2 mechanical standard 104 black cherry in 2012 and besides a few key caps looking like the letter is fading the thing performs like it's brand new. So if their goal is to sell a lot of keyboards and they're going to last that long they probably want a keyboard packed with features cause if you only sell to a niche it might not sell as well and those people have no reason to re buy since they last so long
post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncck View Post

So if their goal is to sell a lot of keyboards and they're going to last that long they probably want a keyboard packed with features cause if you only sell to a niche it might not sell as well and those people have no reason to re buy since they last so long

You're not mentioning us here on OCN. We are the collectors and we do buy any and all sorts of keyboards, in a variety of configurations.
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