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[OverclockersClub]Overclock showdown: GTX 980Ti vs GTX 1070 vs GTX 1080 - Page 12

post #111 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by wholeeo View Post

My babies, sad-smiley-002.gif

Don't worry, I taking good care of them. Though, they sure fold like champs. biggrin.gif They currently taking a break though. The 4770K busy prepping for the BOINC Pentathlon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

GTX 580 was a big die with compute and produced a lot of heat. There was a reason it needed all that fan speed! Such a consumer chip from Nvidia doesn't exist anymore sadly.

No kidding, that was my first Nvidia GPU then I had a GTX590 Classy. I remember using one of them during the last Chimp Challenge. Boy the heat those cards could push out. They where great room heaters though.
 
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post #112 of 389
Drivers won't effect it much, Pascal is nearly identical to Maxwell in architecture.

All factors accounted for, it looks like the 1080 is going to give around 10% more performance than a T-X / 980ti, which if memory serves is about what we saw with the Titan / 780ti vs the 980.

The most concerning part for me that no one seems to be mentioning is the memory clock speeds.

Overclocking your memory does in fact give a slight boost in your totals, especially on firestrike. The 1080 has a much higher clocked GDDR5X than the 980ti with it's normal GDDR5 memory.

If the 980ti had GDDR5X memory at a similar clock speed, it would probably break even or even surpass the 1080 (in firestrike scores), which leaves me a little concerned about how little improvement there really is


While I know this isn't the whole story:

1080 is : 2560 Cores * 2.0 ghz = 5120
Titan-X is: 3072 Cores * 1.4 ghz = 4300

or about a 18% gain from the T-X to the 1080, almost identical to what the firestrike numbers are showing us here. However, when you consider that Vram OC improves your firestrike scores and the new 1080 has Vram that runs 20% faster than the T-X you end up with the Maxwell GPU cores outperforming the Pascal GPU cores clock for clock...

That's kind of disturbing to think about that the older cards outperform the newer cards clock for clock. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in here, but has that ever happened before where the newest generation of GPU's, actually performed worse than the old gpu's given all other aspects being equal?



Edit: What I would really love to see when/if someone has a 1080, is what the difference in firestrike is when running the card at stock memory clocks and when it's downclocked to the same as the Titan-X/980ti.
Edited by DNMock - 6/3/16 at 9:12am
post #113 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post


Have you guys actually read the Pascal white paper?

GP104 looks remarkably similar to GM204 when you look at the block diagrams, and the white paper seems to say Pascal's major improvements are memory compression, async compute stuff, and an updated polymorph engine that now inclues simultaneous multi-projection, which is mostly related to VR.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I used GP100's block diagram above, but if you look at GP104's block diagram below, you'll see it's even more similar to Maxwell:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Completely agree here. Fanboys keep missing the mountain for Pascal, which is SMP. The absolute ~15-20% non-VR improvement we all have seen so far come from the node shrink, improved memory compression, and faster GDDR5X. There is no arch innovation -- Async Compute improvement is due to NVidia making everything faster, which makes great use of pre-emption. There is no new hardware feature for any new driver releases to exploit for miraculous additional 10%+. Typical driver maturization may warrant 5% tops, since this is basically shrunk Maxwell, the drivers are already quite mature.
post #114 of 389
I'm rather bummed about these two Pascal cards.

Reminds me of the difference between ddr3 and ddr4. You need high speed to overcome ddr3 just like Pascal needs 2100+ mhz to pull ahead of Maxwell at 1500 mhz.

VR performance looks very promising, but that is super niche.

The RX480 looks like a great value at $199 but we've had that level of performance for a few years now.

I'm sure a 1070 is 2-3x faster than this 960 I'm using so that'll be nice for me. But ultimately I'm left underwhelmed from a raw performance standpoint.

Nvidia had me under the impression that a 1080 was stronger that sli 980's. I guess they were speaking in regards to specific scenarios and not "games".
post #115 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

-snip-

Kinda feels like 2007-2008 again... when Nvidia followed a big uarch change (Tesla) on an old node with Tesla die shrinks and an even more complex big daddy Tesla on the new nodes.

And AMD gave up chasing the high-end for a bit to focus on mainstream small dies.
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post #116 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Drivers won't effect it much, Pascal is nearly identical to Maxwell in architecture.

All factors accounted for, it looks like the 1080 is going to give around 10% more performance than a T-X / 980ti, which if memory serves is about what we saw with the Titan / 780ti vs the 980.

The most concerning part for me that no one seems to be mentioning is the memory clock speeds.

Overclocking your memory does in fact give a slight boost in your totals, especially on firestrike. The 1080 has a much higher clocked GDDR5X than the 980ti with it's normal GDDR5 memory.

If the 980ti had GDDR5X memory at a similar clock speed, it would probably break even or even surpass the 1080 (in firestrike scores), which leaves me a little concerned about how little improvement there really is


While I know this isn't the whole story:

1080 is : 2560 Cores * 2.0 ghz = 5120
Titan-X is: 3072 Cores * 1.4 ghz = 4300

or about a 18% gain from the T-X to the 1080, almost identical to what the firestrike numbers are showing us here. However, when you consider that Vram OC improves your firestrike scores and the new 1080 has Vram that runs 20% faster than the T-X you end up with the Maxwell GPU cores outperforming the Pascal GPU cores clock for clock...

That's kind of disturbing to think about that the older cards outperform the newer cards clock for clock. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in here, but has that ever happened before where the newest generation of GPU's, actually performed worse than the old gpu's given all other aspects being equal?



Edit: What I would really love to see when/if someone has a 1080, is what the difference in firestrike is when running the card at stock memory clocks and when it's downclocked to the same as the Titan-X/980ti.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

Completely agree here. Fanboys keep missing the mountain for Pascal, which is SMP. The absolute ~15-20% non-VR improvement we all have seen so far come from the node shrink, improved memory compression, and faster GDDR5X. There is no arch innovation -- Async Compute improvement is due to NVidia making everything faster, which makes great use of pre-emption. There is no new hardware feature for any new driver releases to exploit for miraculous additional 10%+. Typical driver maturization may warrant 5% tops, since this is basically shrunk Maxwell, the drivers are already quite mature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iRUSH View Post

I'm rather bummed about these two Pascal cards.

Reminds me of the difference between ddr3 and ddr4. You need high speed to overcome ddr3 just like Pascal needs 2100+ mhz to pull ahead of Maxwell at 1500 mhz.

VR performance looks very promising, but that is super niche.

The RX480 looks like a great value at $199 but we've had that level of performance for a few years now.

I'm sure a 1070 is 2-3x faster than this 960 I'm using so that'll be nice for me. But ultimately I'm left underwhelmed from a raw performance standpoint.

Nvidia had me under the impression that a 1080 was stronger that sli 980's. I guess they were speaking in regards to specific scenarios and not "games".

These are all I ever wondered about 1080 and 1070 too. However, do they really need to go any faster ? They probably projected they could pass this "async compute" craze with 1080 until their next one. Only if AMD could pose serious threat on the raw performance department. We could have better prices and performance.
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post #117 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

As I said, they're using the same CPU as I am... which means they're using the same chipset as I am, have the same PCI-e bus speeds, the same I/O speeds, etc. They're clocked the same as well and as I also said, their memory speeds are if anything higher (and the timings barely suffer for it; 3400 MHz vs 3000 MHz, 16-18-18-38 vs 15-17-17-35) plus they've got the same amount (16 GBs), therefore they've got better memory. In fact, their motherboard is a higher-end board from the same manufacturer's Z170 lineup. And I've neither touched cache overclocking nor the speeds of anything else on the board. Their CPU, memory, chipset, and board are all-around superior or equal at minimum.

The GPUs were also matched in both claimed core and memory clock speeds and beyond that, there is nothing that Firestrike could test. It is a primarily processing speed benchmark that's low on local memory usage (and therefore does not in any way benefit from storage drive speed) and has two distinct measurements: CPU physics processing and graphical rendering. That's it.

But they aren't the same motherboard, cpu, gpu, ram, hard drive, power supply .....the list goes on and on. The margin of error combined with how variable results with benchmarks can be, even with the EXACT same hardware (meaning serial numbers are the same, not model numbers) you can get swings of hundreds of points in benchmarks. This is why you can't compare benchmark scores across multiple review sites and system setups. Just changing the motherboard out for a different version on the same chipset will throw out all of your previous numbers, even if you keep the same clock speeds and memory timings.
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post #118 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Kinda feels like 2007-2008 again... when Nvidia followed a big uarch change (Tesla) on an old node with Tesla die shrinks and an even more complex big daddy Tesla on the new nodes.

And AMD gave up chasing the high-end for a bit to focus on mainstream small dies.

And then the HD 4870 was born.

One can only hope...
post #119 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

And then the HD 4870 was born.

One can only hope...

I'd only consider moving from 280x for a niche RX 485 whenever or ever they release that. Just because of my 4850 nostalgia biggrin.gif
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post #120 of 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Drivers won't effect it much, Pascal is nearly identical to Maxwell in architecture.

All factors accounted for, it looks like the 1080 is going to give around 10% more performance than a T-X / 980ti, which if memory serves is about what we saw with the Titan / 780ti vs the 980.

The most concerning part for me that no one seems to be mentioning is the memory clock speeds.

Overclocking your memory does in fact give a slight boost in your totals, especially on firestrike. The 1080 has a much higher clocked GDDR5X than the 980ti with it's normal GDDR5 memory.

If the 980ti had GDDR5X memory at a similar clock speed, it would probably break even or even surpass the 1080 (in firestrike scores), which leaves me a little concerned about how little improvement there really is


While I know this isn't the whole story:

1080 is : 2560 Cores * 2.0 ghz = 5120
Titan-X is: 3072 Cores * 1.4 ghz = 4300

or about a 18% gain from the T-X to the 1080, almost identical to what the firestrike numbers are showing us here. However, when you consider that Vram OC improves your firestrike scores and the new 1080 has Vram that runs 20% faster than the T-X you end up with the Maxwell GPU cores outperforming the Pascal GPU cores clock for clock...

That's kind of disturbing to think about that the older cards outperform the newer cards clock for clock. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in here, but has that ever happened before where the newest generation of GPU's, actually performed worse than the old gpu's given all other aspects being equal?



Edit: What I would really love to see when/if someone has a 1080, is what the difference in firestrike is when running the card at stock memory clocks and when it's downclocked to the same as the Titan-X/980ti.

Kepler cores are stronger than Maxwell cores too

it seems Nvidia makes weaker cores but makes them go higher

what we see here is pascal even more stretched than Maxwell meaning overclocking it will not benefit you that much compared to previous gens

clock speed means nothing though, its just a number its all about how strong the cores actually are

could have a i7 920 @ 5ghz v a pentium g3258 @ 4ghz and in single threaded performance the Pentium would run away

the way I think of it is 1 guy would have a mustang v8 500hp but weights 2 tons another guy could have 350hp but weights 1 ton

the guy with 350hp will destory the mustang around a circuit because hes lighter thats the way I think of these new cores from Nvidia / intel

but it seems Nvidia just keep upping the clock speed and not so much the IPC
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