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Broadwell-E Binning - Page 3

post #21 of 133
Interesting- maybe intel's binning on the 6850k v 6800k matters more this time around?
post #22 of 133

Good luck finding a good one. Bins are horribad this gen.. even Intel cant find enough high bin to satisfy demands (luckily for us they arent the best at binning). *smaller build process compared to HW-E, with much of the same IP just optimized IMC = core speeds will be slower compared to last gen, though IMC will better. I would expect 4.6 on water to be near 'golden' bin for these CPU no matter how many cores.

post #23 of 133
That seems to be roughly comparable then to Haswell E - with a top end Broadwell E at 4.6 GHz roughly equal to a 4.7 GHz Haswell E (which is pretty much the limit on air and water for 24-7 clocks).

I'd imagine that the top Skylake E when they are released will struggle to do more than 4.6 GHz as well. I'd love for them to be Skylake speeds, but that is unlikely at best. Still, a 6950X at 4.6 GHz would be quite awesome, as would the Skylake equal when it comes out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL3P20 View Post

Good luck finding a good one. Bins are horribad this gen.. even Intel cant find enough high bin to satisfy demands (luckily for us they arent the best at binning). *smaller build process compared to HW-E, with much of the same IP just optimized IMC = core speeds will be slower compared to last gen, though IMC will better. I would expect 4.6 on water to be near 'golden' bin for these CPU no matter how many cores.

Just curious but what kind of overclocks are you getting for RAM on the IMC? I expected that the IMC would get stronger compared to Haswell E, but not as strong as Skylake.

Also, any particular motherboards that you find have been very easy to work with for overclocking?
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post #24 of 133
Subbed.

SL, could you please leave those 6850K cpus(and all those rare ones) there on the website so we can click "Click here to be notified by email when Intel 6850K Boxed Processor (ETA June 8th) becomes available" ? Otherwise we have no chance on getting one... thumb.gif
post #25 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat4l View Post

Subbed.

SL, could you please leave those 6850K cpus(and all those rare ones) there on the website so we can click "Click here to be notified by email when Intel 6850K Boxed Processor (ETA June 8th) becomes available" ? Otherwise we have no chance on getting one... thumb.gif

Give us some time, we don't keep listings up on the site unless we're confident we'll find more in the coming weeks. We're still learning about what's rare and what's not when it comes to Broadwell-E.
post #26 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

That seems to be roughly comparable then to Haswell E - with a top end Broadwell E at 4.6 GHz roughly equal to a 4.7 GHz Haswell E (which is pretty much the limit on air and water for 24-7 clocks).

I'd imagine that the top Skylake E when they are released will struggle to do more than 4.6 GHz as well. I'd love for them to be Skylake speeds, but that is unlikely at best. Still, a 6950X at 4.6 GHz would be quite awesome, as would the Skylake equal when it comes out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CL3P20 View Post

Good luck finding a good one. Bins are horribad this gen.. even Intel cant find enough high bin to satisfy demands (luckily for us they arent the best at binning). *smaller build process compared to HW-E, with much of the same IP just optimized IMC = core speeds will be slower compared to last gen, though IMC will better. I would expect 4.6 on water to be near 'golden' bin for these CPU no matter how many cores.

Just curious but what kind of overclocks are you getting for RAM on the IMC? I expected that the IMC would get stronger compared to Haswell E, but not as strong as Skylake.

Also, any particular motherboards that you find have been very easy to work with for overclocking?

 

Any good X99 board is still a good X99 board for BW-E.. overall mem speeds should go up a bit on BW-E compared to HW-E.. as you cannot OC cache like you used to. This means on HW-E you could hit the IMC bandwidth limit with lower memory speed... on BW-E the IMC is optimized for higher throughput already... and with initial cache bandwidth being lower.. you stand to have more headroom for memory speed before IMC is maxed out.

 

That said - any good RAM kit for HW-E should go a bit higher on BW-E (due to slower cache speed). SKL doesnt have a stronger IMC either.. its the same actually. Less active channels means less bandwidth for the IMC to handle... this is the only reason why memory does +4ghz on SKL.. its only Dual-CH.  ;)

 

*Im using Giga X99 Champion btw.

 

**For SK-E .. its supposed to release with an on-die FPGA .. lets no expect too much at this time in terms of performance.

post #27 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silicon Lottery View Post

Give us some time, we don't keep listings up on the site unless we're confident we'll find more in the coming weeks. We're still learning about what's rare and what's not when it comes to Broadwell-E.

Thanks Silicon Lottery.

I suspect that perhaps only 2-4% will be able to do that 4.6 GHz then. The challenge there will be that the HEDT parts are so low volume that it may not be possible to have a 10 core 4.6 GHz bin - even the 6800K might be a struggle then.

I noticed that even the 6700K 4.9 GHz bins are gone. Either they are selling fast or there simply isn't enough volume to justify the top 3% (or prices are still too low - my guess is those who want the "best" are not so price sensitive).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CL3P20 View Post

Any good X99 board is still a good X99 board for BW-E.. overall mem speeds should go up a bit on BW-E compared to HW-E.. as you cannot OC cache like you used to. This means on HW-E you could hit the IMC bandwidth limit with lower memory speed... on BW-E the IMC is optimized for higher throughput already... and with initial cache bandwidth being lower.. you stand to have more headroom for memory speed before IMC is maxed out.

That said - any good RAM kit for HW-E should go a bit higher on BW-E (due to slower cache speed). SKL doesnt have a stronger IMC either.. its the same actually. Less active channels means less bandwidth for the IMC to handle... this is the only reason why memory does +4ghz on SKL.. its only Dual-CH.  wink.gif

*Im using Giga X99 Champion btw.

**For SK-E .. its supposed to release with an on-die FPGA .. lets no expect too much at this time in terms of performance.

A very well earned +Rep.

Right now I'm on the MSI X99A XPower, which has been a pretty solid board so far. No major BIOS hiccups for me (although there have been a few people had some issues with the layout and a few bugs in the MSI X99 section). I'm thinking about going with the new XPower again, but if there was something truly awesome I'd be open to a migration.

Somewhat off-topic, but I think that in some cases, MSI has made strides forward. An example of a stride forward is that, I don't seem to have personally experienced "9C" USB issue that plagued MSI's BIOS in the past (I did on Z87). I was thinking about buying a second X99 for a second system, and if it is true that Skylake E won't bring performance gains, there may be little point in waiting. It's not 100% smooth of course, but it's pretty good.

I think that we will have to wait and see in the coming months which boards have the best BIOS.

What I had been hoping for with Skylake E:
  1. Same clocks, but also same clockspeeds as to top CPUs on Skylake E as Broadwell E (or better, but that probably won't happen) at 4.5 - 4.6 GHz, only with Skylake E IPC.
  2. Six channel RAM for HEDT (as per Purley leak, but more recent leaks suggest that only the workstation gets the 6 channel RAM)
  3. Faster IMC - six channels + better IMC = win for applications that use memory bandwidth

The reason for 1 is because basically, Haswell E was similar in clockspeed to Ivy Bridge E, only with Haswell IPC, so you got some performance gains. Not much, but some. Do you think the FPGA might prevent this? I have heard that on Broadwell (Ex: 5775 C), the eDRAM, although it can be used as an L4 cache, is partially responsible for the weak clockspeeds.

I did not know that Skylake and Haswell E had the same IMC. Hmm ... any word on Skylake E and its IMC?

I had known that the Skylake Xeons would have an FPGA, but I did not know that the HEDT would ship with the FPGA enabled. Hmm ... one interesting question is whether or not it would lead to performance loss, but also the potential for gains (if we had anything that could use the FPGA somehow).
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post #28 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Thanks Silicon Lottery.

I suspect that perhaps only 2-4% will be able to do that 4.6 GHz then. The challenge there will be that the HEDT parts are so low volume that it may not be possible to have a 10 core 4.6 GHz bin - even the 6800K might be a struggle then.

I noticed that even the 6700K 4.9 GHz bins are gone. Either they are selling fast or there simply isn't enough volume to justify the top 3% (or prices are still too low - my guess is those who want the "best" are not so price sensitive).

I haven't found a 4.9 6700K in the last 100+ I've tested, so it doesn't make much sense to leave an option up on the site that may never come back in stock. I haven't found any 4.9 6700K in 2016 batches, which is all I'm getting to test at this point. I've toyed with the idea of offering a 4.85GHz bin, but have generally leaned against it.

It's a difficult task to balance the price, sometimes I just don't know how rare a bin might become. Prices are generally based off of what I've found in the last two months.

I still should have some better data for Broadwell-E in the coming weeks. Based off people subscribing for email notifications, there is a surprisingly large demand for the 6950X.
post #29 of 133
Out of interest, approximately how many chips did you bin with your first run of 6850ks?
post #30 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirillum View Post

Out of interest, approximately how many chips did you bin with your first run of 6850ks?

~15 of each.
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