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Tcase of the FX line and AMD Non-Disclosure Agreement

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
So I have a FX-6300 as a backup / family PC and questions arose about Tcase, AMD Overdrive and so on so forth in a Brazilian forum. The information regarding the Tcase of the FX is scarce, but I found a few mentions of AMD engineers saying the Tcase is 70ºC for the FX-6300. But what about the whole FX line? Some say that the 95W processors have a 70ºC Tcase and the 125W line has a 60ºC Tcase. Seems that another trend is that the hexacore line has a 70ºC Tcase and the octacore line has a 60ºC Tcase. In this mess, the FX-8320E is a 95W octacore. So what is the rule of thumb? 95W vs 125W or hexacore vs octacore? And what about the FX-4100 and 4300?

I wrote to AMD and the response was:
Quote:
As I understand that you are question regarding Tcase Temperature of FX 6300 processor. If I have missed any critical information about your inquiry, please let me know as my suggestion below may change.

Tcase information is high confidential information that cannot be accessed by anyone under the agreement between AMD Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) & the person. As you have requested the Tcase information of FX 6300 processor. I would like to share the information of Tcase.
If you wish to have more information about Tcase of rest of the processor, I request you to sign NDA with AMD local sales representative.

The Tcase Temperature of FX 6300 processor is 70ºC.

Is this for real? They can't disclose the Tcases of the FX line? That I need to sign a NDA with a local sales representative? What the hell got into these people? You go to an Intel site and you have all the info laid out for anyone. Even endless XMP profiles sheets, everything.

Or perhaps this is a move to hide a flaw on the FX line? That would make much more sense, because the way things stand it is absurdly silly. For a sec I thought that I was back to kindergarten in this e-mail exchange.

I appreciate any input on the Tcase of the FX line and on the weirdo NDA from AMD's part.

Regards,
Edited by Contiusa - 6/2/16 at 4:12pm
post #2 of 26
see here - http://www.overclock.net/t/1134229/amd-cpus-max-temps/310#post_17256497 - for FX line Tcase 70°C+


"Tcase is the temperature of the processor's metal case or heatspreader (that is in contact with base of cooler).

Tjunction or core temp is the temperature of the processor core. And for multi-cores, each core usually has an individual sensor so that when you run monitoring softwares like Speedfan, Core Temp or Real Temp, you will get multiple readings. Core temperature limit is typically 105°C. Processor and motherboard will usually initiate auto-shutdown if Tjunction limit is ever approached.

Maximum Tcase limit is much lower than the Tjunction limit"

I have mine FX 8320 several times raised to 90°C (Tjunction max) after that the system automatically shuts down.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
The problem with these threads is that people always say "should be" not "it is". From other threads, the consensus seems to be that the octacores have a lower Tcase. But then again, there are some gray areas. And since AMD has this crazy NDA... Do you know why they don't disclose the temps?
post #4 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contiusa View Post

The problem with these threads is that people always say "should be" not "it is". From other threads, the consensus seems to be that the octacores have a lower Tcase. But then again, there are some gray areas. And since AMD has this crazy NDA... Do you know why they don't disclose the temps?

Because the T-case temperature Cannot be read, there is NOTHING to read it from.

The whole construction core family is like this. there are no Thermal diodes in this series.

The core temperature you see isn't an actual temperature. its the result of a calculation (that is likely the NDA part) based of lab testing.

That being said, your next question is likely what temperature is an actual sensor, the answer for that would be your Socket.

If you are concerned about the warp temperature of the Alloy in the IHS, you will likely never get there, as it is likely higher than the pre defined temps for the cores dealt with by the NDA calculation.

AMD has a tool called overdrive



beside it is HWinfo64, OFC my sensor window is edited it does not show up like this at stock. but wth AOD you can find the sensor that is your CPU if more than one is labelled such
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post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

AMD has a tool called overdrive

Overdrive is a sort of mobile app, something for people who owns a tablet and would never touch a hardware or open a case. If the Overdrive has a threshold, of course they have a Tcase, and why they don't disclose this Tcase? And then people go around in forumns and are kept in the dark and people say "I think", "it should".

Secrecy does not seem to be the right way to promote the market. The level of disinformation / missinformation does not help either. this is what I call giving a shot in the foot.

I wrote back to AMD asking why the NDA.

EDIT: I say Tcase max. This is what I asked the rep:
Quote:
"What is the Tcase for the FX-6300? I say Tcase as in maximum recommended temperature for 24/7 use."
Just to make sure what they don't want to disclose.
Edited by Contiusa - 6/2/16 at 6:42pm
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contiusa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

AMD has a tool called overdrive

Overdrive is a sort of mobile app, something for people who owns a tablet and would never touch a hardware or open a case. If the Overdrive has a threshold, of course they have a Tcase, and why they don't disclose this Tcase? And then people go around in forumns and are kept in the dark and people say "I think", "it should".

Secrecy does not seem to be the right way to promote the market. The level of disinformation / missinformation does not help either. this is what I call giving a shot in the foot.

I wrote back to AMD asking why the NDA.

did you even bother to read my post?

the only thing i reference any thing like "i think", Is your next question, AND the temperature threshold of the alloy used in the IHS. as alloys go their mailable temperature isn't low by any means always exceed three digit temperatures.

and no that isn't a moblie app. that is a computer app.

and LOL you expect AMD to tell you anything other than that information is NDA

find the misinformation in my post. or stop trolling.
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post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
I don't know why you wrote that. I stated
Quote:
And then people go around in forums
I think it is clear that I am referring to the internet / forums in general.

And I won't get into semantics with you. Then I could say the troll is you, right? I even said "sort of mobile app". Geez,,,
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailScHLAMP View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contiusa View Post

The problem with these threads is that people always say "should be" not "it is". From other threads, the consensus seems to be that the octacores have a lower Tcase. But then again, there are some gray areas. And since AMD has this crazy NDA... Do you know why they don't disclose the temps?

Because the T-case temperature Cannot be read, there is NOTHING to read it from.

The whole construction core family is like this. there are no Thermal diodes in this series.

The core temperature you see isn't an actual temperature. its the result of a calculation (that is likely the NDA part) based of lab testing.

That being said, your next question is likely what temperature is an actual sensor, the answer for that would be your Socket.

If you are concerned about the warp temperature of the Alloy in the IHS, you will likely never get there, as it is likely higher than the pre defined temps for the cores dealt with by the NDA calculation.

AMD has a tool called overdrive



beside it is HWinfo64, OFC my sensor window is edited it does not show up like this at stock. but wth AOD you can find the sensor that is your CPU if more than one is labelled such

thumb.gif so you can either believe me, and go to verify the thousands of posts referring to this topic to find the actual information and official links regarding this, you'd have to ask AMD different questions to get these answers.
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post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 
How they determine their threshold on the Overdrive? Isn't that a sort of Tcase max? Why the rep told me: "The Tcase Temperature of FX 6300 processor is 70ºC." why he cannot tell me the same data about the FX line?

You have been misreading my posts and being kind of aggressive. Cool off.
post #10 of 26
Thermal margin = tCTLMax - tCTL.
tCTLMax is 70 units for all 15h FX series desktop CPUs, regardless of the model or the TDP.

tCaseMax is a physical temperature, measured from the center of the heatspreader. It varies based on the TDP.

95W = 70.5°C
125W = 61.1°C
220W = 57.0°C

tCTL and tCase should not be confused, the first one is a relative value and the second one is a physical one.

Do note that the motherboard manufacturers can and usually will alter the tCTLMax limit. When increased from stock (70) it will "increase" the thermal margin, since tCTL itself doesn't reflect these changes.
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