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Archimedes block install, Cooling upgrade for "Behemoth"

post #1 of 125
Thread Starter 
Just got my Archimedes TEC block in today and it is a thing of beauty. I will be running it with the 62mm Thermonamic TEHC1-19940, which is over-zealously and theoretically rated at something crazy like 630w Qmax @ 24v but is closer to 470w@24v in the real world...which still makes it the most powerful 62mm TEC available and a whole 72w @ 12v more powerful then the former top dog CTE 400w that I am currently running.

There are already plenty of good pictures of the block itself, but the first thing I would like to mention is how great of a job the machining was on this piece - I lap all my parts (by habit, probably not much difference with a TEC) and this was by far the flattest and easiest to lap block/heatsink/cold plate I've had the pleasure of doing. It didn't even need a real multi-stage lap...I literally spent under 5 minutes and just hit it by hand with some fine grain 1500 finishing paper before polishing it with a paper towel and a drop of 3M Perfect-it stage 1 (best polish ever BTW if you have a dark vehicle, commercial grade stuff that you can't find in stores). To compare, I usually spend close to 30 minutes total with a sheet of glass and wet paper stuck to it going from 800, 1000, then 1500 before killing myself with rubbing compound and then polish ending with a sore arm laughingsmiley.gif.

Before (extremely flat, acceptable surface but has some machining marks):


After (spent literally FIVE MINUTES with that ~1.5"sq piece of sand paper you see and a drop of that polish...thats it!):





Will run some base tests with my current setup by Saturday night and hopefully start installing this Sunday and re-running with everything besides the block identical. Planning to do some simple hyperpi runs at 4.5ghz, 4.7ghz, and 5ghz for people with different OC'ing chips. Since my controller currently limits me to 0c cold plate which it can hold at 4.5ghz I expect the Archimedes to be the same at 4.5ghz, slightly better at 4.7ghz, and much better at 5ghz where my current block gets overloaded and starts creeping up. That should also show in nice easy to follow numbers how a TEC behaves when it starts being ran past its rating...things get nasty QUICKLY :jest:.
Behemoth
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Behemoth
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post #2 of 125
well, now you have some conception of the pain I went through sanding and polishing the 6 X CPU water blocks I have. It took me 8 weeks to do all of them working 2 to 4 hours a day. you did a great job though and the final finish looks like a mirror.
post #3 of 125
Nice polishing thumb.gif Looking forward to your full test~
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post #4 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

well, now you have some conception of the pain I went through sanding and polishing the 6 X CPU water blocks I have. It took me 8 weeks to do all of them working 2 to 4 hours a day. you did a great job though and the final finish looks like a mirror.

Trust me my arm hurt just reading about you lapping 6x waterblocks!

These were so flat and already machined smooth raw copper so it was cake though - 5 minutes tops by hand biggrin.gif.
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Behemoth
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post #5 of 125
Thread Starter 
I was busy with other projects today so did not get to do much. I did assemble the block with CLP on both the hot and cold plates, actually running out of it so now I need more for the CPU...

I also am trying a new method for helping insulation...had some Plastidip left over from messing with my beater and have always wanted to try it for insulating. I masked off the hot side, the top, plugged the temp probe hole, and the cold plate raised surface then hit it with a few thick layers both along the side of the TEC+plates and all the surfaces of the cold plate except for the exposed raised area.

I will still be stuffing it with art eraser just in case, but hopefully this not only makes it better insulated but also makes it easier to clean and remove everything. For the motherboard, it is already insulated so I won't do anything with that but replace the paper towel layer on top of the eraser.





I'll remove the masking either tonight or tomorrow morning and report back whether it looks like it will work or not smile.gif. If so, I will be using it to insulate my next GPU when I run the two TEC chillers on it...still waiting to see what the 490x brings to the table but 2x8GB 480s for only ~$460 is crazy tempting...
Edited by Puck - 6/4/16 at 5:46pm
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Behemoth
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post #6 of 125
The plastic dip thing is interesting.rolleyes.gif Did you spray into the gap between cold and hot plate?
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post #7 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxrena View Post

The plastic dip thing is interesting.rolleyes.gif Did you spray into the gap between cold and hot plate?

Yep, sprayed it into the gap along the edge of the TEC as well. It came out OK, but my last coat was too thick (in a rush) so it bubbled a bit and I let it try too much before removing the masking tape so the edges arent as clean as I'd like. Still keeping it on though, will add some art eraser on top of it and hopefully will make it better insulated and easier to clean.

Behemoth
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Behemoth
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post #8 of 125
Are those 18awg leads on that 40amp TEC? I'll never understand that. Please tell me they're at least 14ga or 12ga and that I'm just underestimating. Do you just clip them short and run a heavier gauge to a splice?

That use of plasti-dip is really interesting. Looking good.

My block is in the mail. smile.gif
post #9 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chicken View Post

Are those 18awg leads on that 40amp TEC? I'll never understand that. Please tell me they're at least 14ga or 12ga and that I'm just underestimating. Do you just clip them short and run a heavier gauge to a splice?

That use of plasti-dip is really interesting. Looking good.

My block is in the mail. smile.gif

Yea, 18AWG leads. I would love to see larger but they aren't really necessary once you keep in mind that data sheet is basically all theoretical and bogus.

They are not ran anywhere near their theoretical Imax which is at an impossible 74Dt. At 12v w/~150w load it will be more like ~35Dt, 216Qmax, and 18a. Since I know you know your stuff with electronics, thats probably plenty of info for ya. For those without a ton of electronics experience I'll explain a bit more...

While 18a is still slightly higher then the 16a rating of 18AWG, that is a conservative rating due to many factors that effect a wires load handling ability like ambient temperature and length of wire. It depends heavily on length of the wire, temperature of the environment, and how many load carrying wires are in the bundle. For 1-3 load carrying wires together in a ~23-25c case over a very short distance it will be fine smile.gif. More important then the wire though, it is too much for one connector - which is why we solder them to multiple wire PCIE connectors to spread the load. While 18a on an 18AWG is fine for a short length, we wouldn't want 18a on one molex pin...it will melt the connector.
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Behemoth
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post #10 of 125
It occurred to me that the wires may terminate on the cold side of the TEC in which case some of the heat will be drawn out of them. As the current goes up, more heat is drawn out.

I'm looking to run one of these with a peak input of 850 watts ... 85% of their rated 1KW input. I don't think there's any point in running past 85% on just about any TEC as the COP curve really gets ugly beyond that point. I know the impedence can shift a bit with temperature differential but generally this TEC seems to be about 5/8th's of an Ohm. That 850 watts would put me at 23 volts and 36.9 amps at that impedence. Until I test, I'm just estimating of course. For example, in spite of its ratings, I may not want to run this TEC past 750 watts when I wring it out. You guys have indicated that this TEC's ratings are a bit aspirational and so I may have to adjust my assumptions.

Again, that 850 watts is just the occasional peak ... not a continuous condition. If I order some of these, I'm thinking of trying to get the Aluminum Nitride substrate, metalized surfaces, and maybe a slightly larger wire gauge if they offer it.

I agree though, you're perfectly fine where you're running given all of the mitigating factors you mentioned.

I'm really looking forward to your testing. I think I noticed that you are changing out both the block and TEC at the same time on this. I assume some of your gain will potentially come from being at a better spot on the COP curve with this larger TEC and perhaps not just with the advanced block alone.

I'm off to build some boards today on an unrelated item ... a pump driver. I'll keep an eye out for your progress.


Edited by Master Chicken - 6/5/16 at 10:29am
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