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Archimedes block install, Cooling upgrade for "Behemoth" - Page 5

post #41 of 125
I think asking AMD to match skylake or the upcoming kaby lake is too much to ask. I think ZEN should come in at haswell, or between haswell and broadwell level of IPC, then Zen 2 should be kaby lake level, as long as they are close in IPC and can get reasonable clock rates then that is enough for me, Intel steps up performance such a tiny amount with each new arch that AMD can be a generation or 2 behind and still compete. Skylake gets a big boost from DDR4 so ZEN will get that benefit which is what will allow it to be haswell IPC or better I hope. If they come in at Ivy level IPC they will not impress people enough and would have to remain the bargain buy rather than competing on close to level terms in price and performance.

I'm am really keen to see what AMD does with their APU's even though it's not my market, I think it will be what really gets them going again, solid APU's for laptops etc will do wonders for them.
post #42 of 125
Thread Starter 
Have everything I need ordered to install the block now, just need to actually do it lol. Maybe Friday...

Also, if anyone needs the high accuracy/quick response micro 1.25mm thermistors recommended for this block (or TEC use in general), I ordered some from the manufacturer and due to the minimum order amount I'm going to have about 6 extra so just shoot me a PM and I'll hook you up thumb.gif.

They have teflon leads and are epoxy sealed, with extra fast response time.
Behemoth
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Behemoth
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post #43 of 125
Thread Starter 
Cut the thin 18AWG TEC wires down to roughly 1/2" and soldered on two 16AWG wires for each side. With two thicker wires dedicated to each POS and NEG the wiring can support rougly 35A...the TEC will only pull ~18A at 12V so the wiring is roughly double the minimum recommended. This will make sure that I will lose as little power through waste heat as possible.

The stock 18AWG wiring is technically rated to 16A vs the 18A it will actually pull, but they are also very short wires so if you ran it stock although the wires would get hot it would still be safe. I would NOT extend it any longer with a single 18AWG for each line though.

Still waiting for my CLP to get here, along with my overpriced micro thermistors, then I need to dig through my junk box for a 4pin molex to connect it to the controller. Also need to swing by Grainger for some bolts and springs to mount it more safely...current setup has been using a hard mount and its real easy to over tighten it.

Still crossing my fingers for Friday...
Behemoth
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
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Behemoth
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post #44 of 125
double wiring. thumb.gif
can I ask why the double 16AWG wire, and not a 12AWG wire in it's place?
the reason I ask, is that even the 10AWG wire I am using, it gets warm with 15+ amps going through it. biggrin.gif
post #45 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

double wiring. thumb.gif
can I ask why the double 16AWG wire, and not a 12AWG wire in it's place?
the reason I ask, is that even the 10AWG wire I am using, it gets warm with 15+ amps going through it. biggrin.gif

Two reasons:

First, it is easier to run multiple smaller flexible wires then a single large and stiff wire for wire management. To hide my wires, my TEC wiring goes from the TEC block to the edge of the mobo, sharp turn down into the bottom section, across the case, then another sharp turn back up under the controller where it connects from the back. Thats 4x 90* turns in a ~1.5ft length of wire.

Second, it is much easier to use a standard Molex connector with multiple leads that plugs right into my controller then using large wire that is harder to crimp to molex pins or that have to be used with terminal screws or bananna plugs. Molex ends are cheap, common, and effective so why not?

If it was high frequency AC there would be another bonus, reducing the "skin effect" where the electricity wants to run along the circumference of the single thick wire instead of going evenly through its core. Multiple smaller wires will prevent that.
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Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
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Behemoth
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post #46 of 125
I use 2 x 16-18awg wires each for pos and neg too, I think Fox cut the TEC wires at about 2-3" though on mine. I use 4 pin EPS (4 pin CPU power connector) is that what you mean by 4 pin molex or do you actually mean molex? I actually need to simplify my wiring a bit to remove an extra set of connectors.

Yeah when I had RAM issues I was using hard mount, I went out and bought some longer M3 x 60mm bolts and stole some springs and washers off my Apogee XTL and use it with wing nuts. Doesn't look as clean but much safer/easier to mount. Can't recall if you are mounting without IHS or not?
post #47 of 125
Don't the wires terminate on the copper traces on the cold side of the TEC in most cases? So you get some cooling benefit from the TEC itself drawing heat from the copper connections.
post #48 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

I use 2 x 16-18awg wires each for pos and neg too, I think Fox cut the TEC wires at about 2-3" though on mine. I use 4 pin EPS (4 pin CPU power connector) is that what you mean by 4 pin molex or do you actually mean molex? I actually need to simplify my wiring a bit to remove an extra set of connectors.

Yeah when I had RAM issues I was using hard mount, I went out and bought some longer M3 x 60mm bolts and stole some springs and washers off my Apogee XTL and use it with wing nuts. Doesn't look as clean but much safer/easier to mount. Can't recall if you are mounting without IHS or not?

Yea, its a 4pin EPS connector, not a standard flat molex.

I have the IHS on there with CLP underneath. I have heard conflicting opinions on running naked with a cold plate - some have said its an improvement, others have said its actually worse since you are now drastically reducing the contact area of the cold plate and "wasting" a lot of the cold.

My thoughts are, with the advent of new crazy good TIMs like CLP/CLU, and the increased surface area, having the IHS on with a cold plate should be slightly better but I've never back to back tested it. If it was 10 years ago and we were all still using AS5, then the IHS on would clearly be worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chicken View Post

Don't the wires terminate on the copper traces on the cold side of the TEC in most cases? So you get some cooling benefit from the TEC itself drawing heat from the copper connections.

I'm pretty sure the actual connection point for the wires is on the hot side, but never exactly checked. Would make more sense to me to let your cooling system do all the work and not have anything that may warm up the cold side with the wiring.
Behemoth
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RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
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Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 OC'd RX580 8GB OC'd RX580 8GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN669 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
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post #49 of 125
I used 8 pin EPS for the 600mm (26") run from PSU to controller, then 4 pin EPS for the 150mm (6") run to the TEC from the controller, seems perfect with 18 to 20amps.

Leaving the IHS on just add's another layer of TIM, the IHS has the same contact to the die as the cold block would, so there is no greater contact with or without the IHS, there is no thermal benefit to it other than being easier to get perfect contact with the block. ie if the IHS is off, the cold block is effectively the IHS, but unless it is perfectly mounted with spacers of the correct thickness to hold the CPU in place in the socket and ensure the block is mounted with perfectly flat contact with the die then running with IHS on is probably the best option. Only caveat to this would be if the cold block is excessively thin I guess, in which case the IHS would help spread the heat to the outer edges of the cold block, but that might be negated by the extra layer of TIM.

If you get everything right with IHS off it's worth about 5 degrees from my testing, but to remove the chance of a bad mount or bad contact or a cracked die or bent pins I think I'll stick with the IHS on next time around. I ran out of CLU so I'll try the CLP that I have. CLU is a right pain to clean off the block once it has gone subzero, I actually need to lap it off my block every time I remount. I guess CLP will be the same or worse.
Edited by LiamG6 - 7/28/16 at 7:08am
post #50 of 125
Sure, that makes sense to be on the hot side. I'm not sure why I was thinking it was backward.
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