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Archimedes block install, Cooling upgrade for "Behemoth" - Page 10

post #91 of 125
sounds like you've been on a roller coaster ride, but came out right! So what temp have you got it set to hold? And you are still using the chillers?

I think removing the IHS would get you a few more degrees but I could only use 1 x 2mm layer of neoprene on the bottom of my block to clear the caps with no IHS on, so it wasn't ideal, then the mount issues too, it's not worth a few degrees.

I'm wondering how the CL is working as a TIM on the TEC's, hard to say really, and it's not gonna come off now to do a comparison. Maybe when I get mine hooked up again I can compare my temps with you across the board, lie coolant temp, hot side temp and cold side temp to see if it's gaining you a few degrees over whatever fox used on mine, I think it's probably AC2 TIM on mine. I think my hot side block temp was 5-8*c above coolant temp, so TEC hot side would be hotter than that, can't really compare with different heat load but we could compare numbers anyway. I think if I redid the TIM on my archimedes block I'd use kryounaut between tec and copper plates. Did you use a torque screwdriver to do your block up? Or just by feel?
post #92 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

sounds like you've been on a roller coaster ride, but came out right! So what temp have you got it set to hold? And you are still using the chillers?

I think removing the IHS would get you a few more degrees but I could only use 1 x 2mm layer of neoprene on the bottom of my block to clear the caps with no IHS on, so it wasn't ideal, then the mount issues too, it's not worth a few degrees.

I'm wondering how the CL is working as a TIM on the TEC's, hard to say really, and it's not gonna come off now to do a comparison. Maybe when I get mine hooked up again I can compare my temps with you across the board, lie coolant temp, hot side temp and cold side temp to see if it's gaining you a few degrees over whatever fox used on mine, I think it's probably AC2 TIM on mine. I think my hot side block temp was 5-8*c above coolant temp, so TEC hot side would be hotter than that, can't really compare with different heat load but we could compare numbers anyway. I think if I redid the TIM on my archimedes block I'd use kryounaut between tec and copper plates. Did you use a torque screwdriver to do your block up? Or just by feel?

There is no way I would get core contact without the IHS, I already had to run my insulation much thinner then I'd like and use extra CLU just to get contact with the IHS. Still not 100% convinced its good contact, but its working.

Without us using the same model temp probes it won't be apples to apples(I've seen a 2c variance between two generic identical temp probes ordered at the same time that were both supposedly accurate to less then one degree rolleyes.gif) , and I don't have a temp probe in my hot side block anyway. On my CPU loop I am only monitoring cold plate and coolant temp, with another temp probe on my GPU loop res. I have the probe and temp display available to add hot side monitoring, I just did not find it important enough to add. No tq screwdriver was used during assembly, just by feel.

Right now my cold plate is locked to 12c, ambient 25.5c, coolant temp 28.9c, duty cycle 34%, and with Opera open and a few tabs my core temps are bouncing around +/-2c at ~14/14/16/19 with the minimums listed as 13/13/14/16. When my central air cycles on everything drops 2-3c since the ceiling vent is ~6' away and points right at the (many) intake fans of computer - purely coincidental and I did not even notice that until after a few weeks of having it there. Computer has only been on for 15 mins so the coolant temp will creep up another 2* or so at non-intensive light load like web browsing. About to play some UT4 Alpha for 30mins or so then report back with coolant temp and duty cycle with everything still locked at 12*...old setup would report a max of 48c after UT4 at the same block temp and clocks, so being the same locked cold plate I should see the same temp if the mount is correct. If its higher then that, I know that the mount is still poor. If its any lower, it is just a bonus due to the CLU on the cold plate instead of AC2.

Keep in mind my CPU it still set for its 5ghz settings with just a lowered multiplier so its being fed 1.36v at 4.8ghz lol. Could probably be stable with 1.3v or less and run a LOT cooler but I haven't gotten around to setting a separate OC profile yet. The real test will be when I crank it up and see how low of a cold plate temp it can hold...with a single CTE400 in the mindchill block it would peg at 100% DC and couldn't hold under 11c when running a stress test or lengthy benchmarking.
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post #93 of 125
No bare die? Such disappoint. frown.gif
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post #94 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiw View Post

No bare die? Such disappoint. frown.gif

No chance of proper contact without IHS, even with it my mount it poor.

I'n need to mod the base of the cold plate for that...and its only worth maybe 3*c.
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post #95 of 125
Yeah I won't be going bare die this time around either.

Puck, any chance you could run the TN669 TEC flat out at 14v without the controller for a test run? I want to see what it can hold. Contemplating grabbing a 15v Meanwell but it'd be pushing my controller a bit hard, but it would be nice to be able to hold 0*c with my CPU at 5-5.2ghz. 10*c is my target for 12v. I think 15v is the sweet spot for this TN669 but damn that's like 20-30amps so it might overload the archimedes, 15v x 25a is 375w of heat just from the TEC!! The US2 block can handle that, but I think the Arch is best suited to 200-250w from the TEC plus the CPU heat load.
Edited by LiamG6 - 8/6/16 at 8:30pm
post #96 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

No chance of proper contact without IHS, even with it my mount it poor.

I'n need to mod the base of the cold plate for that...and its only worth maybe 3*c.
LOL was a bit tipsy when I posted that. Apologies for the terrible spelling and grammar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

Yeah I won't be going bare die this time around either.

Puck, any chance you could run the TN669 TEC flat out at 14v without the controller for a test run? I want to see what it can hold. Contemplating grabbing a 15v Meanwell but it'd be pushing my controller a bit hard, but it would be nice to be able to hold 0*c with my CPU at 5-5.2ghz. 10*c is my target for 12v. I think 15v is the sweet spot for this TN669 but damn that's like 20-30amps so it might overload the archimedes, 15v x 25a is 375w of heat just from the TEC!! The US2 block can handle that, but I think the Arch is best suited to 200-250w from the TEC plus the CPU heat load.

I can do 12v full out, but don't have my 14v PSU anymore. My CTE400 @12v held 4.8ghz 1.36v at 11-12c so 10c at 5ghzshouldn't be impossible for the TN669 assuming you aren't pushing phase volts through it! When I had it at 14v it was on a 3770k that would only do 4.7ghz so it had no problem with it. Unfortunately no back to back tests though.

I really need a more robust controller and a 14-15v PSU, I think with two D5s and my insane rad space it should be enough cooling for the hot side...I currently have 2x Black Ice Gen2 480s w/fans in push only installed and water temp is only ~6-8c over ambient during normal use. I also have a brand new Nemesis GTX480 sitting in a box and enough identical fans to go push+pull on all three "just in case" I add the chillers back in or think or another crazy build biggrin.gif.
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post #97 of 125
All good, I might grab a 15v PSU to test with. When I was using my TN669 it was summer, so my ambient temp was about 32*c, it held 10*c under heavy benching at 12v, was around 0*c during games, but they were pretty lightweight games. So with my ambient now at about 23*c (in my "winter") I should be actually pretty close to holding 0*c under heavy load. Hopefully I get this built ASAP before temps start heating up again to test it. Also my TN669 block has the same thermistors that you are using, fox installed them, those other ebay specials were in my home made cold block for a 12715 TEC on a G3258 that I was trying to push to 5ghz. It made it to 5ghz for a validation lol, just, but it's been shelved now. I'm only using the controller from that setup. I would recommend the controller I use if you are looking for a cheap one that works. Mosfet is rated for 47amps (recommended to stay under 20amps because of PCB traces), 7-25v. Can solder connectors on, no OCP built in, can push it until the traces burn up tongue.gif and ask it to be configured for whatever temp range you want, I have one at -15*c to 15*c and one at 0*c to 30*c. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TEC-controller-for-Peltier-modules-with-PID-7-25V-max-20A-cooling-mode-/231704893134?hash=item35f2b016ce:g:fJQAAOSwiLdWA-wf http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-TEC-controller-for-Peltier-modules-5-30V-max-20A-/231897113286?hash=item35fe2522c6:g:hfMAAOSwQTVWBolp

I've got the case and hard tube now, just waiting on some sleeving and a few bits and bobs. Have to do some very minor customization to the Evolv ATX TG to fit the rads in, I'll be using a mix of rads, Alphacool 280mm ST30 in top with 2 x EK Vardar F3 140mm 2000rpm, Hardware Labs 360mm Alpha Extreme III in the front and EK 120mm Coolstream XT in the rear with 4 x EK Furious Vardar F5 3000rpm 120mm fans. All fans in push. The F3 140's and F5 120's track really closely in terms of CFM and noise so they are a good match. It's a tight squeeze in the Evolv, but it all actually fits, I just need to drill some holes for drain ports and pass through's. I wanted to fit another 240mm rad in but won't really work, I may eventually cut the front and top panel to improve airflow in the case too, it's a bit too restricted for my liking. Still, it should be enough for the 4670k, TN669 Block, Gene VII VRM Block and I picked up an Asus Strix GTX970 with an EK FC block for half the price of an RX480, so that'll go in too. I don't think I'll ever be able to fit a chiller in this case but I always have my trusty Silverstone TJ09 to modify if I want to do that.
post #98 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

All good, I might grab a 15v PSU to test with. When I was using my TN669 it was summer, so my ambient temp was about 32*c, it held 10*c under heavy benching at 12v, was around 0*c during games, but they were pretty lightweight games. So with my ambient now at about 23*c (in my "winter") I should be actually pretty close to holding 0*c under heavy load. Hopefully I get this built ASAP before temps start heating up again to test it. Also my TN669 block has the same thermistors that you are using, fox installed them, those other ebay specials were in my home made cold block for a 12715 TEC on a G3258 that I was trying to push to 5ghz. It made it to 5ghz for a validation lol, just, but it's been shelved now. I'm only using the controller from that setup. I would recommend the controller I use if you are looking for a cheap one that works. Mosfet is rated for 47amps (recommended to stay under 20amps because of PCB traces), 7-25v. Can solder connectors on, no OCP built in, can push it until the traces burn up tongue.gif and ask it to be configured for whatever temp range you want, I have one at -15*c to 15*c and one at 0*c to 30*c. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TEC-controller-for-Peltier-modules-with-PID-7-25V-max-20A-cooling-mode-/231704893134?hash=item35f2b016ce:g:fJQAAOSwiLdWA-wf http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-TEC-controller-for-Peltier-modules-5-30V-max-20A-/231897113286?hash=item35fe2522c6:g:hfMAAOSwQTVWBolp

I've got the case and hard tube now, just waiting on some sleeving and a few bits and bobs. Have to do some very minor customization to the Evolv ATX TG to fit the rads in, I'll be using a mix of rads, Alphacool 280mm ST30 in top with 2 x EK Vardar F3 140mm 2000rpm, Hardware Labs 360mm Alpha Extreme III in the front and EK 120mm Coolstream XT in the rear with 4 x EK Furious Vardar F5 3000rpm 120mm fans. All fans in push. The F3 140's and F5 120's track really closely in terms of CFM and noise so they are a good match. It's a tight squeeze in the Evolv, but it all actually fits, I just need to drill some holes for drain ports and pass through's. I wanted to fit another 240mm rad in but won't really work, I may eventually cut the front and top panel to improve airflow in the case too, it's a bit too restricted for my liking. Still, it should be enough for the 4670k, TN669 Block, Gene VII VRM Block and I picked up an Asus Strix GTX970 with an EK FC block for half the price of an RX480, so that'll go in too. I don't think I'll ever be able to fit a chiller in this case but I always have my trusty Silverstone TJ09 to modify if I want to do that.

Hmmmm I wonder if you could desolder the trim pot and mount one with a knob in a bay cover for ease of changing, then run two digital temp displays - one for the thermistor cold plate temp and one for the set target temp. Can a single thermistor run to both a display and the board anyway, or would it effect the accuracy of the board?? I'm sure you'd need to cook something up to convert the resistance of the trim pot to the correlating temperature, either through hardware or a simple arduino or r-pi controller.

Might be worth getting one to play around with.
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post #99 of 125
I've actually tried to figure out if I can split a thermistor wire, I wanted the cold block thermistor to report temp to the controller as well as an LCD display, instead of having a second thermistor stuck on the bottom of the cold block that goes to my LCD display, haven't figured out if it's possible, might just make up a split wire from the cold block thermistor n see what happens, I can check it with another LCD temp sensor or my aquaero sensors. As for getting the set temp to display, not sure, I just calibrate it with the PC off, TEC on, adjust the screw until you are at the point that you want based off the cold plate temp reading that is displayed on the LCD. It is a bit of a pain to adjust the tiny little trim pot so it would be good if you can replace it with a knob. You could actually ask the ebay seller if it's possible, he makes them and sells them and is quite happy to answer questions, he may even make a special one for you with the added functionality provided it is all on the same PCB, even if it is just a knob style trim pot rather than tiny screw style. I'm not sure how he calibrates the 30*c range that the controller works over, different resistance or something. It's a very good piece of kit for the price and the guy is very helpful.
post #100 of 125
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

I've actually tried to figure out if I can split a thermistor wire, I wanted the cold block thermistor to report temp to the controller as well as an LCD display, instead of having a second thermistor stuck on the bottom of the cold block that goes to my LCD display, haven't figured out if it's possible, might just make up a split wire from the cold block thermistor n see what happens, I can check it with another LCD temp sensor or my aquaero sensors. As for getting the set temp to display, not sure, I just calibrate it with the PC off, TEC on, adjust the screw until you are at the point that you want based off the cold plate temp reading that is displayed on the LCD. It is a bit of a pain to adjust the tiny little trim pot so it would be good if you can replace it with a knob. You could actually ask the ebay seller if it's possible, he makes them and sells them and is quite happy to answer questions, he may even make a special one for you with the added functionality provided it is all on the same PCB, even if it is just a knob style trim pot rather than tiny screw style. I'm not sure how he calibrates the 30*c range that the controller works over, different resistance or something. It's a very good piece of kit for the price and the guy is very helpful.

Might be worth shooting him an email with a link to this forum to see what he thinks. If he added a digital readout for the target temp and current block temp, a small dew point sensor, then stuck it in a bay drive cover he'd make a KILLING and could easily sell them for twice as much while only spending an extra ~15 bucks or something. I know I'd pay $75-$100 in a heart beat for a 20a capable -15-15c controller with readouts, even if it was all manual and didn't do any automatic adjusting for dew point (just showed it on screen). I know I'm getting picky, but a PWM duty cycle readout would be helpful as well to compare efficiency of different TECs and see how much headroom is available.

I like my Mindchill one, but I cannot target below 0c and I honestly don't fully trust it with this huge TEC so don't want to push it too hard. If he recommended 15A max on the PCB, I'm already running it 20% over spec.
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36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
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Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
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Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 OC'd RX580 8GB OC'd RX580 8GB 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM + Crucial 128GB SSD Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN669 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Specialized Cooling › Peltiers / TEC › Archimedes block install, Cooling upgrade for "Behemoth"