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[VideoCardz] AMD Radeon RX 490X Specifications - Page 30

post #291 of 374
Not to mention the increased burden of the marketing expenses for NV as evident by the jump in SG&A...lol
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post #292 of 374
Here's the corrected wafer:



So yields are 1,117 20x20 dies, 23 100x100 dies or 3 200x200 dies. If we take the cost to manufacture (including etching, photolithographic patterning, deposition, etc) is $ 5,000 for the entire wafer, we see the following cost per die needed to cover just the manufacturing:

20x20 = 5,000/1,117 = $ 4.48 per die
100x100 = 5,000/23 = $ 217.39 per die
200x200 = 5,000/3 = $ 1,666.67 per die
post #293 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

And that gain has zero to do with chip size.
It has to do with tech and manufacturing. That is all. As well as location of the cards in their respective market.
Do you k ow how much it cost to make the 1080 compared to the yy0 ti? No you dont.
What are you implying with the last sentence? Aware us on why does this new node has special costs? GTX 680 didn't cost any more than GTX 580 at launch and it was a new node.

If you knew anything about foundries you'd know that every time they shink the node size they can produce more chips,thus lowering the costs.
Edited by GoLDii3 - 6/8/16 at 10:16am
post #294 of 374
You can use this to see how many chips could come out of a wafer for a given die size.

http://www.silicon-edge.co.uk/j/index.php/resources/die-per-wafer


I remember reading an article a little while ago about the cost of Pascal vs Maxwell (essentially 28nm vs 16nm). The GP104 chip was estimated to be about $10 cheaper per chip than GM200 while getting nearly double the amount of chips per wafer. The cost per wafer is considerably higher with 16nm, something like $4500 per wafer vs $7800 per wafer so there isn't nearly as much cost savings between GP104 and GM200 as there was with GM104 and GM200.

Of course all of that is just cost, price for us has a lot more to do with what the market is willing to pay than the difference in manufacturing costs. If a card comes along with much better performance for a given amount of dollars then what the market is willing to pay ends up changing and so the prices would reflect that change.
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post #295 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

What are you implying with the last sentence? Aware us on why does this new node has special costs?
Double patterning for one. It's been known for a while that the cost of transistor started going up since 20nm.
post #296 of 374
Isn't this the smaller vega? Heard somewhere that Vega and Polaris are backwards in that Polaris 10 is the big chip, but Vega 10 is the small chip which would make Vega 11 the top dog.
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post #297 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oj010 View Post

Here's the corrected wafer:



So yields are 1,117 20x20 dies, 23 100x100 dies or 3 200x200 dies. If we take the cost to manufacture (including etching, photolithographic patterning, deposition, etc) is $ 5,000 for the entire wafer, we see the following cost per die needed to cover just the manufacturing:

20x20 = 5,000/1,117 = $ 4.48 per die
100x100 = 5,000/23 = $ 217.39 per die
200x200 = 5,000/3 = $ 1,666.67 per die

You forgot binning, on bad yields you can disable the flawed cores/stacks and sell the partially disabled card for less.

Another note; the edge of a silicon wafer is usually avoided due to their flaws, this makes a wafer slightly smaller than its actual size, You might have already taken note of this however I do not see the size of the wafer you actually cut from.
Edited by Yttrium - 6/8/16 at 12:43pm
post #298 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yttrium View Post

You forgot binning, on bad yields you can disable the flawed cores/stacks and sell the partially disabled card for less.

That's too broad a statement as not every flawed core is salvageable. Even if we go with 100 % yields though, it turns out like this:

20x20 = 5,000/1,133 = $ 4.41 per die
100x100 = 5,000/32 = $ 156.25 per die
200x200 = 5,000/4 = $ 1,250 per die

All other things being equal, larger dies will always cost more to manufacture.
post #299 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

even if we just look at raw material cost, a chip thats twice the size would also cost twice as much, its idiotic to think it wouldn't.



as for the RX490X spec leak, its BS.

Vega isn't supposed to be out until 2017, this is according to AMD's roadmap.
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-gpu-roadmap-shows-vega-navi-gpu-architectures_179846

There is one important thing, bottom left corner "Projected roadmap. Subject to change". You can swing it either way.

As to Vega, we don't know the size of the chip nor the architecture (only that it has HBM 2). You can even speculate that there are two small dies strapped on an interposer, and being cheaper than one large die. tongue.gif
post #300 of 374
would they change plans so soon? its only been a few months after GDC 2016.
furthermore i'd rather believe AMD's slides over some leaked specs that can't be thoroughly confirmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T1A1 View Post

You can even speculate that there are two small dies strapped on an interposer, and being cheaper than one large die. tongue.gif
i actually wanna see a scenario like that, dual dies that functions as one, no CF drivers needed.
it should be possible if they design their GPU cores to be modular, e.g. you can strap additional slave units to the main GPU die.
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