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post #71 of 91
Bah humbug. While Final Fantasy VII brought me into the fold of a RPG and actually JRPG. What really blew my mind was Star Ocean Second story and Xenogears. And if only Xenogears didn't run out of funding what that Disc 2 could have been rolleyes.gif
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Originally Posted by Ithanul View Post

Yep, they sure love the idea of highschoolers saving the world.

Think the majority of their mangas are like that. Sometimes super rare to come across one with older characters.

Has to do with the mindset of the mangaka projecting their fantasy onto paper. Not only that most of the audience that they get are in the teens anyways so it fulfills their fantasy's too of wanting to be a hero, lover, etc etc.
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post #72 of 91
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Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

Has to do with the mindset of the mangaka projecting their fantasy onto paper. Not only that most of the audience that they get are in the teens anyways so it fulfills their fantasy's too of wanting to be a hero, lover, etc etc.

Yeah, but those rare few that are not like that can be amazing since it seems the Japs are not scare about most subject matter. Though, I still read most manga. Currently loving the Seven Deadly Sins, but I have started enjoying manwas too.
 
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post #73 of 91
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Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

Bah humbug. While Final Fantasy VII brought me into the fold of a RPG and actually JRPG. What really blew my mind was Star Ocean Second story and Xenogears. And if only Xenogears didn't run out of funding what that Disc 2 could have been rolleyes.gif
Has to do with the mindset of the mangaka projecting their fantasy onto paper. Not only that most of the audience that they get are in the teens anyways so it fulfills their fantasy's too of wanting to be a hero, lover, etc etc.

Final Fantasy II (SNES, really IV) was my first, and I played all the NES and SNES games. So how do you think I feel about FF now? This is why I didn't like XII. I was probably playing FF before some people here were born, and I had been an FF fan for years before FF7 (which was kind of dumbed down but still good). And, seconded to the guy who said it was the beginning of taking control away from the player and giving it to the computer. This is why turn based systems were used for so long, because by nature, in a real time game you can only really control one character. Regardless, there are games that do this system (realtime JRPG) right (Secret of Mana and more recently Rogue Galaxy on PS2), and those that don't (any modern FF game and especially XIII).

Xenogears is one of my favorite RPGs of all time and I would agree that it's better than FF7. The first disc anyway. It was originally a scenario written by Takahashi Tetsuya for FF7 but they deemed it too dark, however they allowed him to develop it into a different game. He would later leave and create Xenosaga, and now the Xenoblade series (Xenoblade Chronicles X was fantastic and there's just no damn way FF15 will be anywhere near as good, even though FF15 is copying it's world and monster design remorselessly. Do the research and compare screenshots.)
post #74 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Final Fantasy II (SNES, really IV) was my first, and I played all the NES and SNES games. So how do you think I feel about FF now? This is why I didn't like XII. I was probably playing FF before some people here were born, and I had been an FF fan for years before FF7 (which was kind of dumbed down but still good). And, seconded to the guy who said it was the beginning of taking control away from the player and giving it to the computer. This is why turn based systems were used for so long, because by nature, in a real time game you can only really control one character. Regardless, there are games that do this system (realtime JRPG) right (Secret of Mana and more recently Rogue Galaxy on PS2), and those that don't (any modern FF game and especially XIII).

Xenogears is one of my favorite RPGs of all time and I would agree that it's better than FF7. The first disc anyway. It was originally a scenario written by Takahashi Tetsuya for FF7 but they deemed it too dark, however they allowed him to develop it into a different game. He would later leave and create Xenosaga, and now the Xenoblade series (Xenoblade Chronicles X was fantastic and there's just no damn way FF15 will be anywhere near as good, even though FF15 is copying it's world and monster design remorselessly. Do the research and compare screenshots.)

Rogue Galaxy thumb.gif, I still got my PS2 disc of that game. Really need to get back to it and finish that game. I love the battle system in that one. Never got to play the Xenogears games, but I keep hearing great things about it.

I have played Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X, and enjoy those ones as well.

There just one game I wish sooner or later either Nintendo or SE re-release, and that is Secret of Evermore. mad.gif
 
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post #75 of 91
I think a lot of people should go back and play the FFIV remake on the DS. Its pretty freaking awesome and almost IMHO stands well against FFVI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Final Fantasy II (SNES, really IV) was my first, and I played all the NES and SNES games. So how do you think I feel about FF now? This is why I didn't like XII. I was probably playing FF before some people here were born, and I had been an FF fan for years before FF7 (which was kind of dumbed down but still good). And, seconded to the guy who said it was the beginning of taking control away from the player and giving it to the computer. This is why turn based systems were used for so long, because by nature, in a real time game you can only really control one character. Regardless, there are games that do this system (realtime JRPG) right (Secret of Mana and more recently Rogue Galaxy on PS2), and those that don't (any modern FF game and especially XIII).

Xenogears is one of my favorite RPGs of all time and I would agree that it's better than FF7. The first disc anyway. It was originally a scenario written by Takahashi Tetsuya for FF7 but they deemed it too dark, however they allowed him to develop it into a different game. He would later leave and create Xenosaga, and now the Xenoblade series (Xenoblade Chronicles X was fantastic and there's just no damn way FF15 will be anywhere near as good, even though FF15 is copying it's world and monster design remorselessly. Do the research and compare screenshots.)

Forgot about Secret of mana. I enjoyed Xenogears so much but something about Xenosaga was lost on me.... like their okay, just not as good Xenogears. Same for Xenoblade Chronicles (one of the few reasons why I bought the Wii) just felt like the epicness of Xenogears was missing, and I think because of that time and period, the system, the dated hardware it had to run on was what gave that game its charm and something we'll never get back.

I'm not hyped for FF15 but it looks okay. I'm sure it'll be more enjoyable than FFXIII.
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post #76 of 91
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Originally Posted by zealord View Post

yeah that worries me too. The cast is so ... not what I want.

I think it's japanese people trying to merge with westerners to find common ground, but it goes horribly wrong. A little diversity wouldn't hurt there.

I played the Episode Duscae demo and I am very worried about the PS4 performance. The game already got downgraded heavily from earlier E3 footage. PS4K NEO or PC could save the visual quality.

My biggest fear is that they are trying to appeal to too many people instead of focusing on a game they really want to make.

Thats my problem, as a European the whole "Road trip" thing seems so .. childish, almost as much as the usual tag lines of "Bro film" and "bromance" that are usually associated with them and I think because of that it'll only sell on the Final Fantasy name rather than anything else.

On the flip side, if they just made a japanese game and put in Subtitles it'd fly off of the shelves but as it stands I think Squeenix are trying to hard to market to the American audiance and losing the rest of the world because of it.
post #77 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithanul View Post

Rogue Galaxy thumb.gif, I still got my PS2 disc of that game. Really need to get back to it and finish that game. I love the battle system in that one. Never got to play the Xenogears games, but I keep hearing great things about it.

I have played Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X, and enjoy those ones as well.

There just one game I wish sooner or later either Nintendo or SE re-release, and that is Secret of Evermore. mad.gif

Next to Xenoblade, Rogue Galaxy is easily one of the top JRPGs of the last 10 years or so, along with DQIX (DS). Rogue Galaxy did so many things right. The random encounters were slightly annoying but, the battle system is realtime yet you can pause it and issue orders to your teammates. It's been a few years since I played it, but I recall around the middle of the game, random encounters became really easy because you had practically unlimited MP items, and you could use really powerful team-up attacks (two characters at once) to just one shot all the enemies. That's the only downside, that game is really easy.

Xenoblade and Xenoblade X, they basically rewrote the book on what a modern JRPG is, and now so many Japanese studios are copying them. Everything I've seen of FF15 looks like one big ripoff of Xenoblade, from the huge open world design, to the giant dinosaurs walking around etc. Square-Enix has no creativity or ingenuity anymore. They are a follower, not a leader, when it comes to their games. They also spend 90% of the budget on graphics but fail to make the gameplay interesting, let alone workable (i.e. not stupidly frustrating and unfun- remember if your main character dies in FFXIII but the others are alive, you get a game over? What other FF works like that?).

Xenogears is for PS1 and I would recommend it highly, even if you just emulate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei86 View Post

I think a lot of people should go back and play the FFIV remake on the DS. Its pretty freaking awesome and almost IMHO stands well against FFVI.
Forgot about Secret of mana. I enjoyed Xenogears so much but something about Xenosaga was lost on me.... like their okay, just not as good Xenogears. Same for Xenoblade Chronicles (one of the few reasons why I bought the Wii) just felt like the epicness of Xenogears was missing, and I think because of that time and period, the system, the dated hardware it had to run on was what gave that game its charm and something we'll never get back.

I'm not hyped for FF15 but it looks okay. I'm sure it'll be more enjoyable than FFXIII.

FFIV remake on DS actually got a port to PC and it upscales to HD resolutions. This one was pretty under the radar of most people here, I think. They also did an upgraded port of FFIX.

I finished the FFIV DS remake but I didn't like it very much. The reason is the reason most people give, the difficulty was way too high for no real good reason. It's way harder than the original Super Famicom FFIV "Hardtype". Some of the fights are hair pulling. And I've finished IV like 50 times, fan patches of it, the American FFII cart etc. I can clear the SNES game in under 10 hours. It's my favorite game of all time. There were other reasons I didn't like it, like the omission of features in remakes that came before it (such as Lunar Ruins, using any party member at the end, new items etc. from FFIV GBA). I also thought the fake British/Olde English bent of the script was really corny and stupid and detracted from the game. The characters don't even talk like that in the original Japanese Super Famicom game.

Xenosaga sucked imo unless you like watching 45 minute long cutscenes after every dungeon. The first Xenoblade was quite epic, I thought, added to by the fantastic soundtrack. Great story. Xenoblade X kind of pales in those departments. But I'd agree, Xenogears was probably the best, especially because of the characters and story. I can't think of many other RPGs with such a strong story and characters.
Edited by neurotix - 6/8/16 at 10:23pm
post #78 of 91
Ah, FFIV for the DS. I have that one. I'm stuck on the water boss or something. Darn stinker a pain in the rear, but otherwise the other fights I did not consider tough. But I don't think I'm that far in the game.

@girugamesh, I know where that avatar is from. tongue.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Edited by Ithanul - 6/9/16 at 5:38am
 
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post #79 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Next to Xenoblade, Rogue Galaxy is easily one of the top JRPGs of the last 10 years or so, along with DQIX (DS). Rogue Galaxy did so many things right. The random encounters were slightly annoying but, the battle system is realtime yet you can pause it and issue orders to your teammates. It's been a few years since I played it, but I recall around the middle of the game, random encounters became really easy because you had practically unlimited MP items, and you could use really powerful team-up attacks (two characters at once) to just one shot all the enemies. That's the only downside, that game is really easy.

Xenoblade and Xenoblade X, they basically rewrote the book on what a modern JRPG is, and now so many Japanese studios are copying them. Everything I've seen of FF15 looks like one big ripoff of Xenoblade, from the huge open world design, to the giant dinosaurs walking around etc. Square-Enix has no creativity or ingenuity anymore. They are a follower, not a leader, when it comes to their games. They also spend 90% of the budget on graphics but fail to make the gameplay interesting, let alone workable (i.e. not stupidly frustrating and unfun- remember if your main character dies in FFXIII but the others are alive, you get a game over? What other FF works like that?).

Xenogears is for PS1 and I would recommend it highly, even if you just emulate it.
FFIV remake on DS actually got a port to PC and it upscales to HD resolutions. This one was pretty under the radar of most people here, I think. They also did an upgraded port of FFIX.

I finished the FFIV DS remake but I didn't like it very much. The reason is the reason most people give, the difficulty was way too high for no real good reason. It's way harder than the original Super Famicom FFIV "Hardtype". Some of the fights are hair pulling. And I've finished IV like 50 times, fan patches of it, the American FFII cart etc. I can clear the SNES game in under 10 hours. It's my favorite game of all time. There were other reasons I didn't like it, like the omission of features in remakes that came before it (such as Lunar Ruins, using any party member at the end, new items etc. from FFIV GBA). I also thought the fake British/Olde English bent of the script was really corny and stupid and detracted from the game. The characters don't even talk like that in the original Japanese Super Famicom game.

Xenosaga sucked imo unless you like watching 45 minute long cutscenes after every dungeon. The first Xenoblade was quite epic, I thought, added to by the fantastic soundtrack. Great story. Xenoblade X kind of pales in those departments. But I'd agree, Xenogears was probably the best, especially because of the characters and story. I can't think of many other RPGs with such a strong story and characters.


You made some awesome points. I liked rogue galaxy and played it quite a bit a couple months back but only got maybe 33% done with it? And xenoblade was amazing on the Wii I put over 60 hours into it and was the first real Jap RPG that I enjoyed in a long long time.

As for the DS version of FF4 being to hard I completely agree. The GBA version also felt difificult but when I got the psp version of FF4 i didn't hesitate to grind my heart out and have no problem finishing the game.

6 8 and 12 will always be my favorite but I'm really hoping FF15 offers something that 13 didn't and thats a full immersive JRPG with Leveling trees that actually mean something and characters with a personality.
post #80 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattbag View Post

You made some awesome points. I liked rogue galaxy and played it quite a bit a couple months back but only got maybe 33% done with it? And xenoblade was amazing on the Wii I put over 60 hours into it and was the first real Jap RPG that I enjoyed in a long long time.

As for the DS version of FF4 being to hard I completely agree. The GBA version also felt difificult but when I got the psp version of FF4 i didn't hesitate to grind my heart out and have no problem finishing the game.

6 8 and 12 will always be my favorite but I'm really hoping FF15 offers something that 13 didn't and thats a full immersive JRPG with Leveling trees that actually mean something and characters with a personality.


Look at the early FFs (FF1-3 on NES/Famicom). They aren't about story at all, they're about gameplay. In particular, resource management. You actually had to prepare for the long dungeons in FF1, stock up on healing items, conserve magic for the boss, and so on. It was more about battling, gaining levels, collecting treasure, and seeing how far you could make it in a dungeon without dying, or having to warp out to restore magic...

FF4 (aka 2) was the first one with a real story with characters. It worked because the characters had depth and weren't totally one dimensional. It has a legendary cast of characters, Cecil, Kain, Rydia, Edge, Rosa and so on. You could say the same thing about 6 that you mentioned, with Terra, Edgar, Sabin, Locke, Celes and so on. All of these characters were unique and had well defined personalities.

The reason those games were so good is that they couldn't get by on graphics/cutscenes alone, hell it wasn't even until FF7 that they had prerendered cutscenes. That's a good chunk of the classic series that didn't have them. They couldn't have fancy graphics, so instead they had great stories, characters, and gameplay. It's dumb because, you look at FF8 or FF9 which had some of the most amazing prerendered sequences in any game ever, up to that point. Just phenomenal graphics. Cost millions of dollars to make. You look at it now and it looks like crap. There's a reason the 16-bit FFs are so highly regarded to this day, whereas 8 and 9 regularly are at the bottom of FF ranking lists. (As much as I loved 9).

Now they make the games for graphics first, everything else second. They can't even make a battle system that's competent and allows you to control your whole team at once. So, my hopes for FF15 are not high unless they make the battle system much better than the trailers show. There was an interview with the director where he basically said "if the battles are basically mashing one button, I'm okay with that." (No joke, look it up.) On top of the battles, they really need some unique characters (e.g. they probably need Yoshi taka Amano to do character design again). They need a better script writer, FF6 had a great story and it had none of this "fal'Cie' "Focus" 'Pulse Fal'cie" crap. Stop making up words and obscuring the plot with buzzwords and write a coherent story.

Sorry, but imo the only thing that would redeem or save Final Fantasy in my book is a return to turn-based battles in a medieval game world with design by Amano. Unfortunately, that will never happen, but that does basically describe Bravely Default and Bravely Second... hey.. my brother let me borrow his copy of Bravely Default... he really says I should play it. Maybe I'll do that and just forget Final Fantasy.
Edited by neurotix - 6/14/16 at 10:43am
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