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Planning custom cube case and first time water cooling loop

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Hello guys,

I started planning my first scratch build cube case. Initially, I planned to cool it only on air, but now I am considering to plan for water cooling as well. I jut like testing and trying things out so why not...

First of all, the case will be very small (around 35cm³) and will have a horizontal mainboard layout. There will be to levels/compartments. The lower and smaller compartment for psu and SSDs (10cm height) and then the main compartment with mainboard and the rest.

I plan to have mostly front to back airflow with up to 4x140mm Noctuas in front and 1x140mm rear exhaust in the top rear and 1x 92mm in the bottom rear. To help air to leave the case more easily, I will use a mesh back panel.

I measured my space inside and I am pretty sure I can fit 2 280mm radiators up to 30mm thick in the front. I ordered two Hardware Labs Black Ice Nemesis GTS XFlow 280mm each. to see how things fit.

I am still not sure about a couple of things:

1) Should the fans push or pull through the rads?
2) Is it ok to keep the front to back airflow also with rads meaning that the fans could push/pull air in through the rads?
3) Would it be better to have bottom to top airflow and rads on top?
4) I read that the reservoir should be the highest part of the loop. Is it ok to place it horizontally then? in case of top rads, I can install it vertically but not at the highest point of the loop.

Help, opinions and advice is greatly appreciated!
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post #2 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobsenHB View Post

1) Should the fans push or pull through the rads?

Generally, pull is better.

2) Is it ok to keep the front to back airflow also with rads meaning that the fans could push/pull air in through the rads?

Rads don't know where the air is coming from.

3) Would it be better to have bottom to top airflow and rads on top?

There's so much "wind" inside a case that there is no chance for hot air to rise.

4) I read that the reservoir should be the highest part of the loop. Is it ok to place it horizontally then? in case of top rads, I can install it vertically but not at the highest point of the loop.

Generally a Res can be anywhere and in any orientation. That being said, as for orientation, that depends on where the inlet and outlet are located on the Res.

Help, opinions and advice is greatly appreciated!
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Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
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2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
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post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post


Thanks a lot for your advice! I follow extremerigs.net for a while and they usually test in push and push-pull only. That made me think that pull is somehow not as great as push.
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Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
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G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
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post #4 of 28
Actually, it's pretty specific to particular rads with particular fans.
Sometimes push, sometimes pull. The advantage to pull is the reduction of the effect of the dead spot caused by the fan's hub.
But, of course, using a fan shroud eliminates that effect whether it's push, pull, or push/pull. But most people (you too?) try and cram rads/fans into the smallest possible space, thereby compromising performance.
My System
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
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Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
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My System
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
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post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

Actually, it's pretty specific to particular rads with particular fans.
Sometimes push, sometimes pull. The advantage to pull is the reduction of the effect of the dead spot caused by the fan's hub.
But, of course, using a fan shroud eliminates that effect whether it's push, pull, or push/pull. But most people (you too?) try and cram rads/fans into the smallest possible space, thereby compromising performance.

That makes sense. In my case, I have only little space so pull might be better then.

And there is no performance difference or problem with air bubbles in having the reservoir on the bottom?
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old editing pc
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Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
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The edit bench
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
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post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobsenHB View Post

And there is no performance difference or problem with air bubbles in having the reservoir on the bottom?
WCing systems are "closed loops". As such, gravity and hence component "height", has no effect on performance.
My System
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
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Logiteck G400s none 
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My System
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX6300 Black M5A99X EVO R2.0 Nvidia GTS450 Team Vulcan PC3 12800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO Asus DRW-1608P (x2) Custom Water Cooling Win7 (Ult), Win 8.1 & Win Server 2012 R2 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 X Samsung 915N Ducky Shine III, Blue Cherry/Blue LEDs PCP&C 1kw Lian Li PC-71 (W/Window) 
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post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

WCing systems are "closed loops". As such, gravity and hence component "height", has no effect on performance.

Thanks a lot!
The edit bench
(12 items)
 
old editing pc
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
CoolingOSCaseOther
Noctua NH-D15  Win 10 HAF X Lamptron FC5 V3 
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The edit bench
(12 items)
 
old editing pc
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
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post #8 of 28
First of all ditch the 92mm fan, since its a scratch built case there is no reason not to plan a 120/140 going there. 92mm are loud and won't move the air a 120/140 would. Second, it's really hard to say what will be the best fan setup because we have no idea what the components are or how much your overclocking them. Dual 280's would be barely enough for quad SLI OC'd to the max but would be overkill for onboard GPU with no OC on the CPU. So if you can give us more information to what the components will be and at least a sketch of the case we can give more valuable answers.

BTW, in almost all radiator tests push is better than pull, but with enough radiator space any fan configuration will be within margin of each other.
 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
intel i5 750 Lynnfield Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 ASUS Strix GTX 960 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial BX100 SSD 500GB EKWB EK-KIT L120 Corsair SP120 Koolance 2x140mm Radiator HX-CU1402V 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair AF140 Bitspower VG-NGTX960 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Samsung Curved 27" S27D590C 
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Corsair Strafe RGB Apevia Iceburg 680 watts Apevia X-Sniper 2 EVGA Torq X3 Laser 
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AMD Phenom 9750 ASUS M3A78-CM PNY XLR8 GTX 460 Corsair XMS2 (4 x 1GB) 
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Hitachi 5K500 Silenx 92mm EFFIZIO Corsair SP 120 Red LED Antec 500watt 
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Intel Core i5-6400 Skylake ASRock A170A-X1/3.1 Gigabye G1 Gaming GTX 970 Windforce CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 288-Pin DD... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Bykski CPU-XPR-A High Performance Acrylic Nicke... EKWB Acrylic Nickel GPU Block Monsoon MMRS Reservoir Bykski BY-PUMP-XPH-PA Water Cooling Pump 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Koolance 240 30 FPI Radiator Magicool 280 14 FPI Radiator Bitfenix Spectre PWM 120mm Fan ML140 140mm PWM Premium Magnetic Levitation Fan 
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Windows 10 Pro Corsair RM Series 850 Thermaltake Suppressor F31 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
intel i5 750 Lynnfield Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 ASUS Strix GTX 960 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial BX100 SSD 500GB EKWB EK-KIT L120 Corsair SP120 Koolance 2x140mm Radiator HX-CU1402V 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair AF140 Bitspower VG-NGTX960 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Samsung Curved 27" S27D590C 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Strafe RGB Apevia Iceburg 680 watts Apevia X-Sniper 2 EVGA Torq X3 Laser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom 9750 ASUS M3A78-CM PNY XLR8 GTX 460 Corsair XMS2 (4 x 1GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingPower
Hitachi 5K500 Silenx 92mm EFFIZIO Corsair SP 120 Red LED Antec 500watt 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6400 Skylake ASRock A170A-X1/3.1 Gigabye G1 Gaming GTX 970 Windforce CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 288-Pin DD... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Bykski CPU-XPR-A High Performance Acrylic Nicke... EKWB Acrylic Nickel GPU Block Monsoon MMRS Reservoir Bykski BY-PUMP-XPH-PA Water Cooling Pump 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Koolance 240 30 FPI Radiator Magicool 280 14 FPI Radiator Bitfenix Spectre PWM 120mm Fan ML140 140mm PWM Premium Magnetic Levitation Fan 
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Windows 10 Pro Corsair RM Series 850 Thermaltake Suppressor F31 
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post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

First of all ditch the 92mm fan, since its a scratch built case there is no reason not to plan a 120/140 going there. 92mm are loud and won't move the air a 120/140 would. Second, it's really hard to say what will be the best fan setup because we have no idea what the components are or how much your overclocking them. Dual 280's would be barely enough for quad SLI OC'd to the max but would be overkill for onboard GPU with no OC on the CPU. So if you can give us more information to what the components will be and at least a sketch of the case we can give more valuable answers.

BTW, in almost all radiator tests push is better than pull, but with enough radiator space any fan configuration will be within margin of each other.

I am still working on a sketch and will post it soon.

I will be running a 5930K @4.4GHz 1.3V with cache @ 4 GHz 1.25V, 64GB RAM @2666MHz, GZX 980 Ti STRIX OC on water as well.
The edit bench
(12 items)
 
old editing pc
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
CoolingOSCaseOther
Noctua NH-D15  Win 10 HAF X Lamptron FC5 V3 
  hide details  
Reply
The edit bench
(12 items)
 
old editing pc
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 5930K X99-E WS/USB 3.1 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti G. 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G. G. G. Samsung 950 Pro  
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCase
Samsung 950 Pro  Front intake: 2x 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rp... Top intake: 140mm Noctua industrial 2000rpm Thermaltake Core x9  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930k  Asus x99 e ws 3.1 Asus strix 980 ti G.Skill Rampage V 2800 mhz 
CoolingOSCaseOther
Noctua NH-D15  Win 10 HAF X Lamptron FC5 V3 
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post #10 of 28
You should be fine with 2x280. I would run them both as intake and the fan config shouldn't make a big difference with the temos, so set them up how you think they look best.
 
Spare Parts
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
intel i5 750 Lynnfield Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 ASUS Strix GTX 960 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial BX100 SSD 500GB EKWB EK-KIT L120 Corsair SP120 Koolance 2x140mm Radiator HX-CU1402V 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair AF140 Bitspower VG-NGTX960 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Samsung Curved 27" S27D590C 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Strafe RGB Apevia Iceburg 680 watts Apevia X-Sniper 2 EVGA Torq X3 Laser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom 9750 ASUS M3A78-CM PNY XLR8 GTX 460 Corsair XMS2 (4 x 1GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingPower
Hitachi 5K500 Silenx 92mm EFFIZIO Corsair SP 120 Red LED Antec 500watt 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6400 Skylake ASRock A170A-X1/3.1 Gigabye G1 Gaming GTX 970 Windforce CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 288-Pin DD... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Bykski CPU-XPR-A High Performance Acrylic Nicke... EKWB Acrylic Nickel GPU Block Monsoon MMRS Reservoir Bykski BY-PUMP-XPH-PA Water Cooling Pump 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Koolance 240 30 FPI Radiator Magicool 280 14 FPI Radiator Bitfenix Spectre PWM 120mm Fan ML140 140mm PWM Premium Magnetic Levitation Fan 
OSPowerCase
Windows 10 Pro Corsair RM Series 850 Thermaltake Suppressor F31 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Spare Parts
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
intel i5 750 Lynnfield Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 ASUS Strix GTX 960 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Crucial BX100 SSD 500GB EKWB EK-KIT L120 Corsair SP120 Koolance 2x140mm Radiator HX-CU1402V 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair AF140 Bitspower VG-NGTX960 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Samsung Curved 27" S27D590C 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Strafe RGB Apevia Iceburg 680 watts Apevia X-Sniper 2 EVGA Torq X3 Laser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom 9750 ASUS M3A78-CM PNY XLR8 GTX 460 Corsair XMS2 (4 x 1GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingPower
Hitachi 5K500 Silenx 92mm EFFIZIO Corsair SP 120 Red LED Antec 500watt 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-6400 Skylake ASRock A170A-X1/3.1 Gigabye G1 Gaming GTX 970 Windforce CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (4 x 4GB) 288-Pin DD... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Bykski CPU-XPR-A High Performance Acrylic Nicke... EKWB Acrylic Nickel GPU Block Monsoon MMRS Reservoir Bykski BY-PUMP-XPH-PA Water Cooling Pump 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Koolance 240 30 FPI Radiator Magicool 280 14 FPI Radiator Bitfenix Spectre PWM 120mm Fan ML140 140mm PWM Premium Magnetic Levitation Fan 
OSPowerCase
Windows 10 Pro Corsair RM Series 850 Thermaltake Suppressor F31 
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