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Looking for advice: I7-6950x or 2x Xeons for gaming - Page 4

post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SsXxX View Post

to be honest for gaming u don't need both, moreover most probably they will be even worse than other alternatives, I believe the absolute best cpu (money no object!) for gaming would be the 6850k, has 6 cores which is more than enough, have the same tdp 140w, definitely gonna clock better than 6950x and has 40 pci lanes if u intend to sli

best value though goes to 6700k, and seriously even the advantage of 6850k above 6700k is gonna be minimal if ever noticeable for gaming, moreover 6700k might be better for gaming if clocked higher so I advice u to go the 6700k route and save the money for better mobe/gpu/ssd


honorable mention: 4790k is still one of the universally acclaimed and best performing gaming chips, all of the more expensive/higher-end chips that came after has minimal/barely noticeable benefit in gaming above a high clocked 4790k

I myself have a 5930k clocked at 4.4 and I never seen a higher than 50% cpu usage even on the most cpu intensive/online multiplayer games!


my last advice to u, as I can see money is of no object to u, I don't mind that its your money after all, but seriously forget that 6950x/xeon thing and go for the 6850k trust me its gonna clock better and be better for gaming in general

I appreciate the detailed advice on the processors. Based on the consensus of many folks on this thread, it seems as the 6850K is better for gaming. I wasn't aware that the 6850 would clock better than the 6950X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoSoVaR View Post

Do not go with a multi-socket system for gaming. Dual socket systems add complexities with PCI-E affinity per socket, memory affinity per socket, it just adds complexity.

Single node / single socket system is where you want to be for high performance single threaded and multi threaded applications. Think about when you get an app that is utilizing the second CPU but needs to go over the QPI lane and then hit the PCI-E card that's on the other socket. Bull **** I say to whoever tells you to go dual socket.

Stick with the 6950X, 25MB L3 cache, and 4.1GHz overclock. You're good for $1600 .. especially with the ~7% IPC increase on BW-E over HW-E, think of this as a 4.4GHz 5960X with 10 cores. The "average" 5960X OC was 4.4GHz in the first iteration. Intel made some improvements on later batches...

After reading what you wrote and looking more into, it would be a waste of money and resources for a multi-socket system for gaming. One of the reasons why I asked about it was based on this review. In many of the categories the dual Xeon out performed. I appreciate your advice and I'm going to follow it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

The way processors are advancing, I think a 10 Core processor is a great investment, IPC is slowly increasing, so slowly that Sandy Bridge to Skylake there's almost no difference for gaming when both are running at 4GHz.

I'd say you should wait for Zen and AMD's high IPC Skylake-Like 8-12 Cores CPUs and make the jump to the Enthusiast End, we're on the verge of DirectX 12 which is capable of making use of more than 8 cores at a time for gaming, in 2 yers when every game is using either DX12 or Vulkan an 8 core CPU will become noticeable superior to any i5 no matter its overclock, an 8 core clocked at even 3GHz should be able to stomp any quad core i5 at 5.5GHz over a parallel API like Vulkan/DX12 given that both have the same IPC.

If anything, users that have bought the 8 Core Xeons of 6 Years ago and are overclocking the CPU to 4GHz or more today have no need to upgrade to Skylake or Kaby Lake, and when DirectX 12 becomes Mainstream those then 8 years Xeon processors will become even more incredible, they'll stomp on today's i7 Skylake, which is incredible for a processor that at the time will be 8 years old, and they will extend their lifetime another good 5 years more without losing any performance.

If there is one PC componente that is worth investing, that is our CPUs and I don't mean paying almost 2K$ for a 10 cores i7X, at least I hope I don't mean that, as I have hopes that when Zen comes it'll rightly priced, and/or Intel will be forced to change their segments into a 6 core for the mainstream line and 8 cores for the 5820K line, with a 10 Core 900$ processor.

You can alternatively just buy an incredible Sandy Bridge 8 Core monster on eBay, the Xeon E5-2670 8 Core Sandybridge, Overclock it to 4GHz and be set for the next 8 years of gaming, this 8 core Xeon goes for 50-80$ today, mindbogglingly, isn't it? you could go and put two in a server motherboard for a total of 16 real cores and 32 freaking threads, each core with just around 20% IPC Below Skylake, mean that for those Xeons cores to match the single core performance of a Skylake i5 at 3.5GHz the Xeons must be clocked to 4.0 to 4.1GHz which is entirely feasible and incredible, a peace of tech that's more than half a decade old and yet able to destroy current top of the line consumer CPUs.

eBay is your budget friend.

Or even better yet, a 12 Core/24 Threads HASWELL Xeon E5 2670 V3, if I'm not mistaken Haswell IPC is around 10% give or take from Skylake, this Xeon have the same IPC as a i7 4770K for example, 24 Threads of this glorious IPC with 12 REAL PHYSICALS CORES for 200$

eBay, my new God

Get two of these together and you're ready to run Google DeepMind on it, for 400$.

I for one I'm thinking on doing this, but Zen is less than a year away, and I don't really need to upgrade my current 5820K to a Xeon E5 2670 anyway.

Thanks for the detailed post as well. To be honest, I am not an AMD CPU fan. The last AMD build I had was prior to my first intel build in 2012. I had so many issues and don't have any plans to return to AMD CPUs anytime soon. While intel is more expensive, I've had great success with their processors.

I will have to look further into this older Xeon models you are talking about. The only constraint with using that old of a processor is I won't be able to use DDR4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUFinside View Post

I would stick with that 10 cores CPU and wouldn't bother with dual socket, unless you want to do it for fun. smile.gif

Thanks, based off what many folks have said, I am going to forgo the multi-socket build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyric View Post

I think your at the point were your wasting money trying to kill 2 birds with one pc. If it was me and I needed a gaming and say a bunch cores it's either 5820K for everything of 6700K for gaming a monster 2p server for selecting you need it for. IMHO the ipc advantage of bw-e is lost vs the clock advantage of hw-e. On the server side of your requirements what do you need as many threads as possible or higher clock + as many threads as possible?

Thanks; I may just turn this PC into my encoding machine and not attempt to game and encode on the same machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

FINALLY! Why has nobody else told OP this? If you intend on getting the ABSOLUTE BEST PROCESSOR AVAILABLE FOR GAMING (during the next five years), THEN GET THE 6850k!

Six cores clocked at 4.7GHz will get more FPS than 10 cores clocked at 4.4GHz. In 5 years time we'll probably be making good use of 8 core like we do now of 4 core, BUT the loss in clock speed/overclockability going 10 core means it will perform worse even late in it's life cycle as core counts advance VERY slowly, but IPC (by comparison) advances fairly quickly!

Sure the games of the future will be made for 8 cores, but they'll also be made for much higher IPC.

Seems like the 6850K is where it is at! Many folks are recommending it over the 6950x. Curious, and excuse my lack of knowledge, but how does six cores clocked at 4.7GHz our perform 10 cores clock at 4.4GHz? From what I read, the 6950x can barely do 4.1GHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightEMatt View Post

Engineering samples are always a gamble that would be a case-by-case thing, but the only worthwhile retail Xeon that overclocks (since Sandy Bridge) is the E5-1680v2.

I still think that the OP would be better off building a gaming rig for gaming and a second used workstation for editing. Going for a multi-processor build with the highest clocked, highest core count Xeons is going to be thousands of dollars down the drain when you find out a 6700k performs better in every currently released game.

If the OP decides that the editing and productivity isn't important enough for that, build a savage 6850k (or even 6800k if you only have a couple of PCI-E devices) build as others have suggested and call it a day. It'll game better than its 8 and 10 core counterparts and it'll work fine as a workstation for a casual.

Thanks for your opinion as well; another +1 for the 6850k.
post #32 of 44
look mate unless your filming and than encoding and editing 4k porn you don't need 20 cores end of story get a 6600k and a nice mobo and perhaps a strap on cos your overcompensating
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post #33 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davcc22 View Post

look mate unless your filming and than encoding and editing 4k porn you don't need 20 cores end of story get a 6600k and a nice mobo and perhaps a strap on cos your overcompensating

While I welcome all advice, there is not need to be rude about it. I started this thread to get to get substantial advice with value; which many folks have provided.
post #34 of 44
Lol, you don't need to be an AMD fan to recognize a good product, FX processors are horrible for the enthusiast segment, there is no doubt about that, unless you want a budget multitasking processor.

FX Processors are more than half a decade old now, Zen is the first processor AMD will launch for the Enthusiast market in almost a decade, again, you don't need to be an AMD fan to recognize a great product, Zen will come in an all new Platform which includes 3D Xpoint SSDs and all the goodies than even Kaby Lake will introduce.

Although Kaby Lake and Zen are both due for early 2017 so we have a lot of time to think about what to do, but don't get fooled by Intel Fanboyism, just look at it objectively.

In the scenario of:

1-) Zen having the same or close IPC as the competitor Intel's offering
2-) Zen performing almost double of Skylake and Broadwell-E because of its 8 cores.
3-) Zen competing against a 6900K
4-) Price being reasonable, I expect a Zen 8 core CPU to be around 400-600$

Why would anyone not consider a product like this? Not saying you should buy it but seriously consider it, Just keep an open mind and don't judge a new product by what an almost 10 year product performed.

Zen is believed to have Skylake IPC, with 8 cores, which would absolutely destroy a 6850K all day long, also Zen will most likely bring Intel prices down A LOT.

What I'm objectively saying is, if you're going to spend a ton of money into a current architecture 8-10 core processor like the i7 6900K I believe you should wait for Zen because Intel Processors Prices will most likely be cut in half for the Very Enthusiast segment, but if you want a build now at a way lower price point then an 8 core or 6 cores of a different older architecture, say Haswell, you could go with olden Xeons as they are already cheaper.

I would never recommend you to go with an AMD Processor like the ones on the FX lines given the fact there are Xeons at that price target (Albeit used) that perform infinitely better for games, but Zen will perform better than all of these Xeons and just like current Skylake processors regarding IPC (If rumors are true) but with almost double the performance thanks to 16 Threads and 8 real cores, this without counting clock speed, AMD processors have been known for clocking really high so we might get a surprise.

Anyway, enjoy your build.
Edited by Dargonplay - 6/9/16 at 8:31pm
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyp View Post

While I welcome all advice, there is not need to be rude about it. I started this thread to get to get substantial advice with value; which many folks have provided.
wasnt being rude so to speak just sarcastic
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post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyp View Post

The only constraint with using that old of a processor is I won't be able to use DDR4.

Also about this.

You don't have to give up any performance for going DDR3 instead of DDR4, only bandwitch, Bandwitch that games can't really use, Relative Frequency to Timings is way more important, and they factually reduce input lag proportionally to how tight the timings are (Nanoseconds, guess this point is moot), as you go up in Bandwitch the memory will refresh faster, at each refresh the CAS Latency will have a set time of nanoseconds that will measure the time it takes to start, change or complete a command.

For example a CAS 10 2400MHz DDR3 RAM will have the same performance as a DDR4 3600MHz CAS 15 RAM, what changes is bandwitch, as the DDR4 3600MHz variant will have 50% more bandwitch, but again RAM performance besides bandwitch remains the same, and thats what matters for gaming and general use.

Of course, a DDR4 3600MHz CAS 15 is expensive, around 350$ for 16GB, DDR3 2400MHz C10 goes for around 100$ for the G.Skill, which is the only one I've found can do those frequencies with those timings, here's a good chart for reference.

2133C14 = 13.10ns
2400C10 = 8.33ns
3200C14 = 8.75ns
3600C15 = 8.33ns
4000C20 = 10.00ns
Edited by Dargonplay - 6/9/16 at 8:50pm
post #37 of 44
I'd stick with the i7-6950X if I were you. Its performance at 4.2GHz will equal a 16-core Xeon without the single-threaded performance penalty that comes with all HCC Xeons. I love mine and it's doing very well, even in a mini-iTX system with a mere 92mm AIO water cooling system. I'm actually seriously considering buying a second i7-6950X for a more expansive system (if I can decide on a motherboard).wink.gif
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post #38 of 44
Running an 18 core xeon here. It works well with gaming, can confirm.
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero989 View Post

Running an 18 core xeon here. It works well with gaming, can confirm.

It can game, but not as well as a 4.0GHz+ chip...wink.gif
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post #40 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Lol, you don't need to be an AMD fan to recognize a good product, FX processors are horrible for the enthusiast segment, there is no doubt about that, unless you want a budget multitasking processor.

FX Processors are more than half a decade old now, Zen is the first processor AMD will launch for the Enthusiast market in almost a decade, again, you don't need to be an AMD fan to recognize a great product, Zen will come in an all new Platform which includes 3D Xpoint SSDs and all the goodies than even Kaby Lake will introduce.

Although Kaby Lake and Zen are both due for early 2017 so we have a lot of time to think about what to do, but don't get fooled by Intel Fanboyism, just look at it objectively.

In the scenario of:

1-) Zen having the same or close IPC as the competitor Intel's offering
2-) Zen performing almost double of Skylake and Broadwell-E because of its 8 cores.
3-) Zen competing against a 6900K
4-) Price being reasonable, I expect a Zen 8 core CPU to be around 400-600$

Why would anyone not consider a product like this? Not saying you should buy it but seriously consider it, Just keep an open mind and don't judge a new product by what an almost 10 year product performed.

Zen is believed to have Skylake IPC, with 8 cores, which would absolutely destroy a 6850K all day long, also Zen will most likely bring Intel prices down A LOT.

What I'm objectively saying is, if you're going to spend a ton of money into a current architecture 8-10 core processor like the i7 6900K I believe you should wait for Zen because Intel Processors Prices will most likely be cut in half for the Very Enthusiast segment, but if you want a build now at a way lower price point then an 8 core or 6 cores of a different older architecture, say Haswell, you could go with olden Xeons as they are already cheaper.

I would never recommend you to go with an AMD Processor like the ones on the FX lines given the fact there are Xeons at that price target (Albeit used) that perform infinitely better for games, but Zen will perform better than all of these Xeons and just like current Skylake processors regarding IPC (If rumors are true) but with almost double the performance thanks to 16 Threads and 8 real cores, this without counting clock speed, AMD processors have been known for clocking really high so we might get a surprise.

Anyway, enjoy your build.

@Dargonplay - you are absolutely right and I'm not afraid to admit it. I am judging the AMD CPUs on a processor older than the FX series, AMD Athlon XP 2400 (2002), and I am not objectively looking at it; just basing my experience off of Intel. I appreciate you pointing this out and going into great detail with the processors. I know nothing about AMD's Zen processor so I will need to be diligent and do my research on it.

Quote:
1-) Zen having the same or close IPC as the competitor Intel's offering
2-) Zen performing almost double of Skylake and Broadwell-E because of its 8 cores.
3-) Zen competing against a 6900K
4-) Price being reasonable, I expect a Zen 8 core CPU to be around 400-600$

The above quote is some good information about the ZEN. As stated, I had no idea it was comparable to its Intel counterpart.

Either way, if I go with the ZEN, 6950x, or the 6850x, I should probably wait to see if the price drops. To be honest, my build is not happing at this moment. The case I will be using is going to take 3-6 months to make (custom made from scratch). Either way, the build won't start until atleast November/December time frame. My thought, was to pick up the some of the parts now if I can get them at a good price. However, if the price on the Intel processor could drop because of Zen, then I might as well wait and see.

By the way, what is 3D Xpoint SSDs?

Again, thanks for all the great information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Also about this.

You don't have to give up any performance for going DDR3 instead of DDR4, only bandwitch, Bandwitch that games can't really use, Relative Frequency to Timings is way more important, and they factually reduce input lag proportionally to how tight the timings are (Nanoseconds, guess this point is moot), as you go up in Bandwitch the memory will refresh faster, at each refresh the CAS Latency will have a set time of nanoseconds that will measure the time it takes to start, change or complete a command.

For example a CAS 10 2400MHz DDR3 RAM will have the same performance as a DDR4 3600MHz CAS 15 RAM, what changes is bandwitch, as the DDR4 3600MHz variant will have 50% more bandwitch, but again RAM performance besides bandwitch remains the same, and thats what matters for gaming and general use.

Of course, a DDR4 3600MHz CAS 15 is expensive, around 350$ for 16GB, DDR3 2400MHz C10 goes for around 100$ for the G.Skill, which is the only one I've found can do those frequencies with those timings, here's a good chart for reference.

2133C14 = 13.10ns
2400C10 = 8.33ns
3200C14 = 8.75ns
3600C15 = 8.33ns
4000C20 = 10.00ns

Very interesting, thanks for the chart on the G.SKill ram timings.

As one who has not researched RAM that deep, I had no idea DDR3 has the same performance as DDR4, and the only advantage to DDR4 is the increased bandwidth. Do you happen to have a cross-reference of which DDR3 RAMs are equal to the DDR4 (similar to your DDR3 2400 to DDR4 3600 example)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lutjens View Post

I'd stick with the i7-6950X if I were you. Its performance at 4.2GHz will equal a 16-core Xeon without the single-threaded performance penalty that comes with all HCC Xeons. I love mine and it's doing very well, even in a mini-iTX system with a mere 92mm AIO water cooling system. I'm actually seriously considering buying a second i7-6950X for a more expansive system (if I can decide on a motherboard).wink.gif

Thanks for suggestion. I'm glad your 6950x is working well for you. I would be interested to know if you end up purchasing a second one.
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