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NZXT H440 - Need triple radiator advice - Page 6

post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by thair7391 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

TDP is another great way to determine radiator size. I would personally try for a 120 for every 100 watts of TDP and that should give you plenty of rad space with extra to spare. I love the 280's, have one in my sig rig and one in my new Skylake build almost done. (I would have 2x280's but I won a 240 for free so I'm going to use that with the 280).

So it sounds like I have nowhere nearly enough case space for radiators... Considering how overclocked each of 980 Ti's are, I wouldn't think it unreasonable to calculate a 300W TDP per GPU, plus the 140W of my 5820K +- 40W for the overclocking, that's 780W!!! That means I need almost 8 x 120mm of rad space!!!!! No way that's happening in my H440.

No I don't think so, lets not go back to speaking in absolutes again, nothing in the real world is absolute. I said I myself "try" for 120 per 100 watt, but apw63 is probably more accurate with more TDP per 120 you can get away with. I think I've said it a couple times now if you do a 360 and 240 you will have plenty of rad space for your components. Also I think 300 watts TDP is a little more than what is realistic. The link below says 980 Ti is already pretty close to its max limit at 250 TDP with only about 25 watt more headroom, so you can subtract 50-100 watt TDP from your original guess, so even at a worst case scenario you might get around 680 watts total TDP and that puts you at 5.6 120's worth of rad which is pretty darn close to a 360+240 or 360+280.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9306/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-review/17
 
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post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw63 View Post

Thair7391, all discussion, debating or arguing aside this is your build. Only you can decide how to build it. The best advice I can give you is keep it simple, and read, read, then read some more. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Radnad’s 120 RAD +1 per component is a generally accepted rule of thumb by the water cooling community. Another generally accepted rule of thumb is. If trying to build a quiet system shoot for 120 to 200 watts per 120mm of RAD surface area. There are individuals that have achieved great results with a single 280mm RAD cooling a CPU & 2 GPUs. If you have sufficient RAD space 600-1300 rpm high static pressure fans will be adequate. A high percentage of water coolers build to the positive pressure philosophy. Doyll is 100% correct that good air flow if paramount to effective cooling. He is just out of touch with real world water cooling applications.

this is my instant answe ALWAYS when asked if 240mm-280mm is enough. it is enough. it just wont be quiet is the problem. i have the link to the research and results if youre interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thair7391 View Post

So it sounds like I have nowhere nearly enough case space for radiators... Considering how overclocked each of 980 Ti's are, I wouldn't think it unreasonable to calculate a 300W TDP per GPU, plus the 140W of my 5820K +- 40W for the overclocking, that's 780W!!! That means I need almost 8 x 120mm of rad space!!!!! No way that's happening in my H440.

the h440 isnt built for serious water cooling of serious hardware. it doesnt allow enough airflow through the top or front panel. those panels WILL need to be modified as everyone finds out.
this isnt my personal opinion by the way. there are plenty of posts and threads dedicated to high temp questions when using the case. you need to cut either blow holes for each fan on the rad or remove the panels. its easier to buy a new case which is always my recommendation. you could always use a 1080 rad, mo-ra, as an external.
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post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by thair7391 View Post

So it sounds like I have nowhere nearly enough case space for radiators... Considering how overclocked each of 980 Ti's are, I wouldn't think it unreasonable to calculate a 300W TDP per GPU, plus the 140W of my 5820K +- 40W for the overclocking, that's 780W!!! That means I need almost 8 x 120mm of rad space!!!!! No way that's happening in my H440.
Sorry, but all of the 'radiator size to heat' talk is missing far too many of the variables involved. The biggest being the efficiency of radiators being considered. While these 'rule of thumb' guides can be helpful, they are not all that accurate. That's why they are called 'rule of thumb.'

All of this '120mm is good for x amount' is like saying a 120mm fan is only good for x amount. It depends much more on what radiator or fan it is, not their 2 dimensional size. doh.gif

An extreme example of the difference in radiators is a CLC all aluminum high fin count 120mm has maybe 1/2 the cooling ability of a quality copper radiator of same size and thickness with 40% less fin count.

Here is a good (but old) radiator estimater. Martin is no longer testing, but what did years back is still some of the best (maybe the best) in depth and accurate work done.
http://martinsliquidlab.petrastech.com/MartinsRadiatorEstimators.html
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Sorry, but all of the 'radiator size to heat' talk is missing far too many of the variables involved. The biggest being the efficiency of radiators being considered. While these 'rule of thumb' guides can be helpful, they are not all that accurate. That's why they are called 'rule of thumb.'

All of this '120mm is good for x amount' is like saying a 120mm fan is only good for x amount. It depends much more on what radiator or fan it is, not their 2 dimensional size. doh.gif

An extreme example of the difference in radiators is a CLC all aluminum high fin count 120mm has maybe 1/2 the cooling ability of a quality copper radiator of same size and thickness with 40% less fin count.

Here is a good (but old) radiator estimater. Martin is no longer testing, but what did years back is still some of the best (maybe the best) in depth and accurate work done.
http://martinsliquidlab.petrastech.com/MartinsRadiatorEstimators.html


Did you read martins disclaimer? Martin is saying essentially this tool is only as good as a rule of thumb. He only give the data a 30% accuracy level. This excel sheet compares x amount of RAD surface area removes this much heat with this much fan power.

A better reference set of data to look at would be the charts at the bottom of this page
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/xspc-rx360-radiator/4/

This compares a constant 10c delta T level to how much heat removed per fan rpm. Martin is saying with RAD X you can remove this much heat by applying this much fan power.
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post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw63 View Post

Did you read martins disclaimer? Martin is saying essentially this tool is only as good as a rule of thumb. He only give the data a 30% accuracy level. This excel sheet compares x amount of RAD surface area removes this much heat with this much fan power.

A better reference set of data to look at would be the charts at the bottom of this page
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/xspc-rx360-radiator/4/

This compares a constant 10c delta T level to how much heat removed per fan rpm. Martin is saying with RAD X you can remove this much heat by applying this much fan power.
I guess there is no end to your nit-picking and trolling / stalking me.

The link was posted to be used in it's entirety. Martin makes it very clear it is only for estimating and educational purposes .. repeatedly stating this in title and throughout the article, not just in first sentence of disclaimer. I you are just too busy trolling me and trying to start trouble to understand the obvious.

I quit trying to explain to you because of your attitude. I only reply now to clarify Martin's intentions.
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I guess there is no end to your nit-picking and trolling / stalking me.

The link was posted to be used in it's entirety. Martin makes it very clear it is only for estimating and educational purposes .. repeatedly stating this in title and throughout the article, not just in first sentence of disclaimer. I you are just too busy trolling me and trying to start trouble to understand the obvious.

I quit trying to explain to you because of your attitude. I only reply now to clarify Martin's intentions.

I have never tried to nit-pick, troll or stalk you. I don’t care that much about you. My intention here is to give the OP information so that he can make an educated decision. I have given counter community accepted standard to your unrealistic absolute theories. You have unsuccessfully tried to discount everyone’s theories and experience from the start. You start your post with “Sorry, but all of the 'radiator size to heat’ talk is missing far too many of the variables involved” But Martin’s excel sheet is doing precisely this RAD size to heat dispersed. Martin even says the exact something about his excel sheet. There are far too many variables to make this data very accurate. You try to discount tried and proven rules of thumb as inaccurate and not accounting for variables. But again Martin’s sheet is no better than the rule of thumb. You are inferring that the information you provided is much more accurate and better data. Only when it is pointed out to you do you do a 180 and claim you were right from the start. You are a bully. You have tried to bully and brow beat people in to accept your unrealistic absolute theories. This is one of the reason I have countered your opinions. Regardless of what you think this is a community of water coolers not the doyll dictatorship of knowledge. We don’t need your type here.

You have never tried to explain anything to me. You have tried to talk down to and belittle me.

Be rest assured that all post from you will be ignored by me.
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post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw63 View Post

I have never tried to nit-pick, troll or stalk you. I don’t care that much about you. My intention here is to give the OP information so that he can make an educated decision. I have given counter community accepted standard to your unrealistic absolute theories. You have unsuccessfully tried to discount everyone’s theories and experience from the start. You start your post with “Sorry, but all of the 'radiator size to heat’ talk is missing far too many of the variables involved” But Martin’s excel sheet is doing precisely this RAD size to heat dispersed. Martin even says the exact something about his excel sheet. There are far too many variables to make this data very accurate. You try to discount tried and proven rules of thumb as inaccurate and not accounting for variables. But again Martin’s sheet is no better than the rule of thumb. You are inferring that the information you provided is much more accurate and better data. Only when it is pointed out to you do you do a 180 and claim you were right from the start. You are a bully. You have tried to bully and brow beat people in to accept your unrealistic absolute theories. This is one of the reason I have countered your opinions. Regardless of what you think this is a community of water coolers not the doyll dictatorship of knowledge. We don’t need your type here.

You have never tried to explain anything to me. You have tried to talk down to and belittle me.

Be rest assured that all post from you will be ignored by me.
And away you go again with this fanatical zealot cultist mentality and your 'counter community accepted standard' that have been proven wrong time and again by simply science, physics and common sense now attacking Martin's radiator guide that even you said has disclaimers about being only a rough guide. Only proves again how misguided your rational is.

Good! No answer means no more fanatical lack of understand, crazy misinterpretations and best of all no more trolling.
Edited by doyll - 6/30/16 at 12:41pm
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