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3310 laggy? Maybe is your nvidia card :)

post #1 of 67
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After more than 1 year of testing i can say the 3310 is not so bad. The 3366 is definitely better, but the real culprit is another one. That's why someone like the original avago sensor and someone dislike it so much.

This will be a long post but i hope it will be useful to people who will encounter the same problem i had. I am sure my experience will let some people save time and money (on mice mostly tongue.gif).

The game where i did most of my test is cs:go. I never played 1.6 or source and i started with GO 2 years ago, so i can't compare things with the older versions. That said i played some of the fastest and competitive games reaching the best level possible (eurocup and nationscup on clanbase, esl, interntaional lans, etc.). Considering that i have always been a rambo player and my main quality is my raw aim, i think my discoveries will be quite interesting.

So, what's the main difference beetween cs and the other shooters? Your "mouse aim" is more important than in other games. In the majority of the FPS you don't aim with your mouse, you just flick your crosshair near your enemy and then correct any imperfection moving your body. On cs go body movements are important (strafe, counterstrafe etc.), but you need to be deadly precise with your mouse: you need to control the spray, sometimes transfer it and, most important thing, with some weapons an hs is an instant death for the enemy, while in other games you need more hs to kill someone or the hs doesn't exist (arena fps like quake, for example). So you have time to react, in cs go you don't. And trust me when you play against pro/skilled players you need to be fast and precise. Mostly of the times if you miss the first bullet you are dead.

Now... are you sure your problem is the mouse? I bet more than 50% of people buying mice are experiencing a total different problem: the input lag caused by your hardware settings. And while in other games it's not so important (more time to react, you can help yourself moving around while shooting), in cs go is fundamental.

I am not r0ach, i am not one of his acolytes. I didn't follow his tutorial (i tried but tbh i dont see changes in disabling things in bios or stuff like that), i dont care about my dpc latency (it's 40, but i won't disable hyperthreading or stuff like that, it's just stupid to buy an i7 and than disable an important feature like that tongue.gif ).

When i started playing cs go 2 years ago, i upgraded my pc. I bought a gtx770 and a benq monitor (2411t). Before i was using a viewsonic (120hz) and an ati card but i never changed any scaling option (never did even when i was using older video cards, crt monitors etc.). Why did i do that? Easy, even if i had a 120 hz monitor, friends who were playing with me (and using new monitors like the benq or the asus) were able to see the enemies before me. Now... since my reaction time is pretty fast (150ms on 20 tries on humanbench, 130ms on aimboost etc.) i was quite sure my viewsonic was hurting my performance. Infact i never had a problem like that after i upgraded my monitor. I always used the native resolution @ 120 hz on my old lcd and i was used to play @ 800x600 on my crt. With my new hardware i was using noscaling/scaling on display in the nvidia options + the normal tweeks for cs go (prerendered frame 1, vsync off, all thing everyone knows).
Since the benq had a lot of options i started messing with them, trying res etc... results:
1280x960@120hz: i used this res for 5 months, it was quite good
1920x1080@120hz: mouse is fast, raw and i like it more than the previous because my sens is 1:1 (i don't wanna mess with m_yaw). Used this for more than 1 year.

Now comes the problem... i tried to play 1024bb. Why? Can i focus more with 4:3? Nah, i think my brain can handle 21:9 easily tongue.gif Fps? Nah, i can do 250-400 fps on 1920, so np. So why would i like to play 1024 bb? THE CROSSHAIR. size 4, gap -3, drawoutline 0, it's an hs festival and i can't replicate on higher res because i have to use the outline or i lose it with the background. Now... what's the problem when playing on different res? The input lag. Or at least i think is this strange thing that makes my mouse sluggish. I am using a 3310 atm and it doesn't help but i saw the same problem with a 3366 when using lower res like 1024 or using 144 hz. Did you notice i am using 120 hz on a 144 hz monitor? smile.gif A lot of people always blamed me, thinking i was crazy, but as i said i don't have time to do research and stuff so the only explanation i could give them was something like this.
Let's say i am on A site and i am watching long. If someone pop short what happens?
144 hz: my movement would be inaccurate because i feel weight on the cursor and i can see in slow motion (on the replay) that i am a lot slower compared to when i use 120 hz.
120 hz: my movement is at least 2 times faster, my flicks are not even recorded on the demo, or sometimes when someone shoot me from behind i react so fast my character in game doesn't even finish his movement and the enemy is dead.. so sometimes you can't even see my char reacting and you are already dead.
Just for example, more than 1 month ago i played against ayken, a friend of dukiii (he's like the european fodder lol). I won, i even finished with a positive score and watching the demo i can thank the fact i was using my usual settings because i was so fast in reacting that his wh wasn't enough biggrin.gif It would have been almost impossible to react to his suspicious actions using 144 hz (and now he's banned frown.gif ).

So what's the problem? WHY can't i use 144 hz? My scaling is on display/noscaling, my overall settings looks good, my dpc is low... basically i should have 0 problems and, as i said, i don't know how to explain it. Last weekend i installed an old game and it started in 800x600... since my monitor doesn't have this resolution, windows automatically uses gpu scaling, even if i have selected display/noscaling in the nvidia options. So after some research i finally understand why i can't use 144 hz... The display supports 120hz max, when you set 144 you are automatically using gpu scaling. It's easy to check, if you set -freq 144 on the lauching options you can see from the monitor osd that the real resolution is 1920x1080, even if you are using display scaling from the nvidia panel. So for me it's not an ocd problem, since i didn't know about it and i wasn't using 144 hz because there was a real problem (i can feel the difference! and it's A LOT). The problem is there are so many guys using 144 hz with the scaling on display because, according to them, there is less input lag! biggrin.gif

Last part... maybe the most important one. GPU scaling should add less than 1 ms of input lag but i can say it adds a lot more than my monitor scaler (that should add 7+ ms input lag when using lower res and setting aspect ration in the osd). So, if you dont like your mouse movement or you encountered any of my problem i suggest to try to swap card, especially if you are using a nvidia 700 (gtx 750, 760, 770, 780, 780 ti). Half of the pros are playing 144 hz (so gpu scaling) and i can't think they would play with such an unbelievable lag. I will buy a new pc shortly (mine is 6 years old) once the 1070 custom will be avaible in my country and i am quite sure i will be able to use 144 hz without any problem.

TLDR: i think the gpu scaling option on the nvidia 700 card is superbuggy and i can say that adds a lot more ms than just 1. Simply because it adds more input lag than my benq monitor scaler when using "aspect ratio" or other options (and it has been measured in order of 5-7 ms). So, dont blame your mouse, maybe it's not the real culprit frown.gif
Edited by atarii - 6/18/16 at 7:20pm
post #2 of 67
I've been feeling heavy input lag on all my mice for like 6 months now, my csgo journey has been completely destroyed due to this, I never play anymore as I just keep testing and testing, I've bought so many new parts thinking my PC is the problem, and now I've been thinking to change my monitor to see if it solves the problem.

I went from 660 Ti > 960 same problem on both.. But here's the thing, it wasn't always like that and I don't really know what I did in the past differently than now but I will try changing to 120hz from 144 and see if it helps.

Also I'm on Windows 7, I'll make sure to try the difference between gpu and display scaling. I usually play with stretched 1024, I did try bb and native. 1920 felt the worst, bb was alright, stretched the only thing that makes it a little bit playable for me.

Any more tips I can try out? I really wanna go back to playing competitive csgo but right now I feel everything is so wrong with aiming and that mouse movement is filled with input lag.

Specially when I go ingame... Mouse would feel alright on desktop and instantly like crap when I enter csgo even with rawinput.
Edited by Aymanb - 6/18/16 at 8:04pm
post #3 of 67
Hi, r0ach!
long time, no see! Glad to see you have returned to us!
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post #4 of 67
do a tl;dr pls
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post #5 of 67
He's just saying what r0ach (I know he's not really r0ach) ranted about years ago --Nvidia's GPU scaling adds several frames of input lag while display scaling is fine. And Nvidia's drivers have been known to screw over mouse control or some crap.

You can use ToastyX CRU to create display scaled resolutions and refresh rates that will be scaled by the monitor. Note that display scaling will not work (in most cases) under DX10/11 stuff, although the custom resolution will work. Often, the specific refresh rate you created will be skipped by the game as the game will refuse to use display scaled resolutions.

Creating a 144hz display scaled low (below native) resolution is tricky, as standard resolutions in ToastyX CRU (in the quick drop box under "Standard resolutions" are limited to 123hz.

Usually a detailed resolution (at the top) or something like 1440x1080 or 1280x960 or 1280x720, created with a "LCD Reduced" Vertical Total value of 1098 will often work, and then the monitor's OSD will report 1440x1080@144hz or 1024x768@144hz or whatever you created.

At one time, I had difficulty creating an 800x600@144hz display scaled resolution, because some weird CS:Go crybaby was INSISTING on using 800x600 on a 1920x1080 monitor!! (Usually all of the 144hz resolutions are GPU SCALED from 1920x1080!), and had to use some strange Vertical Total value of like 890 or 920 or something bizarre. Then many months later I tried 1098 VT and it worked.

(look people, if you INSIST on a 4:3 aspect resolution for CS:Go, use custom resolutions of 1440x1080 or 1920x1440 ONLY! Those match the physical screen sizes of 1080p and 1440p monitors. Anyone who wants to use something horrible like 1024x768 these days needs to have their heads examined).
Edited by Falkentyne - 6/18/16 at 8:16pm
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post #6 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

He's just saying what r0ach (I know he's not really r0ach) ranted about years ago --Nvidia's GPU scaling adds several frames of input lag while display scaling is fine. And Nvidia's drivers have been known to screw over mouse control or some crap.

You can use ToastyX CRU to create display scaled resolutions and refresh rates that will be scaled by the monitor. Note that display scaling will not work (in most cases) under DX10/11 stuff, although the custom resolution will work. Often, the specific refresh rate you created will be skipped by the game as the game will refuse to use display scaled resolutions.

Creating a 144hz display scaled low (below native) resolution is tricky, as standard resolutions in ToastyX CRU (in the quick drop box under "Standard resolutions" are limited to 123hz.

Usually a detailed resolution (at the top) or something like 1440x1080 or 1280x960 or 1280x720, created with a "LCD Reduced" Vertical Total value of 1098 will often work, and then the monitor's OSD will report 1440x1080@144hz or 1024x768@144hz or whatever you created.

At one time, I had difficulty creating an 800x600@144hz display scaled resolution, because some weird CS:Go crybaby was INSISTING on using 800x600 on a 1920x1080 monitor!! (Usually all of the 144hz resolutions are GPU SCALED from 1920x1080!), and had to use some strange Vertical Total value of like 890 or 920 or something bizarre. Then many months later I tried 1098 VT and it worked.

(look people, if you INSIST on a 4:3 aspect resolution for CS:Go, use custom resolutions of 1440x1080 or 1920x1440 ONLY! Those match the physical screen sizes of 1080p and 1440p monitors. Anyone who wants to use something horrible like 1024x768 these days needs to have their heads examined.

I can use 1080p for any game, but not csgo. 1024 just feels so much better to play with in every single aspect, specially in a game where feeling good is a huge part of the game.

Most of the pros, I'd even say 80% of them use 4:3, either 1024 or 1280x960 the two most popular resolutions pros use. There is a reason for that.
post #7 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aymanb View Post

I can use 1080p for any game, but not csgo. 1024 just feels so much better to play with in every single aspect, specially in a game where feeling good is a huge part of the game.

Most of the pros, I'd even say 80% of them use 4:3, either 1024 or 1280x960 the two most popular resolutions pros use. There is a reason for that.

Yes, and that reason is habit, that many of them have been playing since lower res displays were common and there were reasons to play at lower res, and conforming with peers.
post #8 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aymanb View Post

I can use 1080p for any game, but not csgo. 1024 just feels so much better to play with in every single aspect, specially in a game where feeling good is a huge part of the game.

Most of the pros, I'd even say 80% of them use 4:3, either 1024 or 1280x960 the two most popular resolutions pros use. There is a reason for that.

As the guy above me said-it's habit.
Tell me exactly, what is the difference between 1920x1440, 1440x1080 and 1024x768 and 1280x960?

They're the exact same aspect ratio!
THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME!
Except 1920x1440 looks a HELL OF A LOT BETTER than a stretched to oblivion 1024x768 on a 2560x1440p monitor or a postage stamp sized centered 1:1 1024x768.

Same goes for 1440x1080 on a 1920x1080 monitor.

I don't even think you have tried those resolutions.
You're just sprouting safe, convenient stuff to avoid leaving your comfort zone.

Please stop living in the past and embrace what is BETTER and nicer looking!
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post #9 of 67
Nvidia even admitted at least their GTX 600 series and older cards have 2x the lag vs their GTX 900 series as shown here in the video:

or maybe its just Nvidia trying to get MOBA players to upgrade to GTX 950 cards, even though their GTX 650 cards are fine (but nvidia said it had lag...so I dunno).
post #10 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyeggtart View Post

Nvidia even admitted at least their GTX 600 series and older cards have 2x the lag vs their GTX 900 series as shown here in the video:

or maybe its just Nvidia trying to get MOBA players to upgrade to GTX 950 cards, even though their GTX 650 cards are fine (but nvidia said it had lag...so I dunno).

Don't buy into that, it isn't anything special. Any Nvidia GPU will have reduced latency when you lower settings and set maximum pre-rendered frames to 1.
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