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3310 laggy? Maybe is your nvidia card :) - Page 7

post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

I wish I could help but as I said I don't have an Nvidia video card.
The only thing I really know about Nvidia is the Nvidia control panel creates GPU scaled resolutions, and GPU scaling can add lag. ToastyX CRU Creates EDID overrides (display scaled resolutions).
However native resolutions should always perform properly because "Scaling" scales resolutions based on the native resolution, e.g. downsampling or upsampling (I think one term is called "Supersampling"). E.g. creating a 3840x2160 resolution on a 1920x1080 monitor is basically doing 4x Supersampling antialiasing, with the exception that the HUD itself (including text, etc) acts like it's on a x2160 resolution, while "true" supersampling is rendering the native resolution with more pixel samples, rather than rendering a higher resolution and displaying that on a physical screen with less pixels.

Getting off topic but you get the point.

I do not know if the Nvidia control panel can create a display scaled lower than native resolution. Even though you can enter advanced timings. e.g. active horizontal and vertical pixels, porch, sync, and horizontal and vertical totals, if you create a 1024x768 @120hz custom resolution with the ACTIVE and screen pixels data both being 1024x768, is it display scaled if you set "Display - no scaling"?

Are you bored enough to check?
(if your monitor itself says "1024x768" then it's display scaled. If it says 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 (if ur on a 1440p), then it's GPU scaled.

I can have display scaling through my monitor without creating custom resolutions. Both GPU scaling and display scaling feels the same. e.g. no lag anymore. But there used to be lag in the past on both of them. So basically something just snapped and decided to work properly. Now no matter what I change, I can't seem to "break" it again.
post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post

It SHOULDN'T add input lag.
On AMD cards, it seems clean.
All of the problems have been with Nvidia video cards. Some Nvidia drivers have been to add more than standard amounts of input lag, and there were some Nvidia drivers where display scaling didn't work at all. That was some time ago, though.

There have been three things when dealing with GPU scaling/Display scaling, and the big adder of input lag: Prerendered frames.

1) Display scaling generally only works in Directx 9, and on the windows desktop.
2) AMD video cards add either 0 frames or 1 frame from display scaling. I sure can't see a difference.
3) For most directx 9 games, the default prerender limit (Max Frames allowed/frames ahead / Flip Queue Size) is 3. This usually adds input lag unless the game engine has its own prerendering.
You can set this to 1 for the lowest input lag, although there are some games where this can cause erratic non lag issues (like cursor stuttering). One famous example is COD4: Modern Warfare. Default prerender limit (3) is glass smooth in this game, but the input lag is *NOTICABLE*. Using a prerender limit of 2 makes things snappier but you start seeing noticeable jitters while turning, which destroys immersion. Using "1" makes things very snappy (almost like Vsync off) but the jitters completely remove the positive benefit of having no input lag. Only thing you can do is turn off Vsync or use something like Radeon Pro (which I haven't tested in this).

This used to accept a value of "0" and 0 worked in the last Windows XP drivers for both AMD and Nvidia. I don't know if "0" worked on the release video card drivers at windows 7 release, but it was removed from the drivers, so now "0" is the same as default (3).
4) As far as I know, prerender / flip queue size ONLY affects VSYNC ON.

Flip Queue Size (AMD) does nothing for DirectX 10+. That's controlled by the engine. I do NOT know if the Nvidia prerender limit affects directX 10+ stuff or not--I don't own an Nvidia card.

Eyy bud.

I uninstalled the driver using DDU, and I installed an old driver, and it was the kinda the same or actually it "broke" again, giving me heavy input lag. BUT!

I "fixed" it yet again, but this time by going into color management and loading the monitors profile instead of the default. It made the colors look awful but the mouse feeling is back at the "good part" like before, just not sure about being 100% fixed still.

This is definitely the monitor being the problem right? I did use some custom resolution trick that made lightboost with normal brightness instead of dark, but that was a tutorial for the XL2411Z and not the XL2411T.. so I might have damaged by then, could it be the case?
post #63 of 67
No, this is the DRIVER being the problem.
Monitors can NOT cause input lag like this.

Loading ICC profiles is a calibration on the video card for colors.
It has NOTHING to do with the monitor. You can buy calibration equipment to measure what give the best results for the monitor, but there's no such thing as some scalar interface making the firmware change the colors.

You would need to do a scientific experiment by buying an AMD card and doing the same thing.
I pretty much guarantee that you would not get the same results.
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post #64 of 67
Alright.

But buying AMD shouldn't be the fix for this, there have to be another way. All my buddies have nvidia and same monitor, but they don't have these problems with the drivers. I've clean installed thousand times and tried two different GPU's.. this is not just some little input lag that I have OCD about, this is literally unplayable state, like having 10 fps. It doesn't register all my mouse movements properly.

It feels more like something is not performing up to par, instead of a certain bug because it's so inconsistent. I have tested the GPU fps and it's all fine... I also uninstalled the drivers entirely and I can't see that much of a difference other than it's hard to tell because 60hz vs 144hz. Maybe it's not input lag but inconsistent refresh rates etc? is there not anything that can cause a monitor to cause mouse lag?

Also have to mention this started over time, not a thing that always was there.. it only happened since 3 months ago, everything before has been perfectly fine. (I've had both my monitor and graphics card for approx. 4 years.. and my 960 is only 2 months old). Also when I change max rendered frames in nvidia controlpanel to 1, the one that for many people reduces input lag, does reduce input lag but it does NOT fix the way the mouse goes around inconsistently. It has the same weird mouse behavior patterns, just with a cleaner input.

I will try the inbuilt graphics card, if it's the same I'll just buy another monitor and see if it fixes it. If it doesnt... I'll change to AMD. Thanks for your time.
Edited by Aymanb - 7/9/16 at 11:11am
post #65 of 67
Sorry, I wasn't asking you to change to AMD.
I was saying if you had some spare random old $30 AMD card, then you could do a test to see if the monitor is the common factor or not. Even though you did find a permanent fix for this issue, it still is nice to know what exactly is causing it. I just know that ICC profiles do not tinker with monitor firmware.

I wasn't trying to suggest buying a high end AMD card to test things. Some people have multiple video cards and emergency backup hardware sitting around, or a laptop or another computer where they could test the monitor on two different systems.

Apologies.
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post #66 of 67
It's all good mate.

My final discovery biggrin.gif... hopefully this shows where the problem is.

Basically I upgraded to windows 10 because I couldn't revert that horrible ICC profile no matter what I did... basically it did make the feeling "better" but it also ruined the graphics, the transitioning from black to grey was not done smoothly, you could see some square lines between each color transition, it was horrible quality, but the mouse feeling was better.

Now that I have windows 10, the ICC got reverted to back to normal, and the lag came back again. But not immediately, it comes after time, depending if I play games or use the PC more often.

And the most important point:

While the lag was completely HORRIBLE, I turned off the monitor by the button, then I turned it back on, and the lag went away for like 5-10 seconds of normal behavior then it started lagging again, so I turned it off one more time, and on again, and the lag disappeared for 3 seconds aswell, but came back after.

Also important to note that I never lag in games, like I play csgo smoothly and other games without any physical lag, it's ONLY the mouse that is affected by this.

EDIT: yep, each and every single time I turn my monitor off and on again, the lag disappears for a while then comes back. I'm buying a new monitor.
Edited by Aymanb - 7/10/16 at 4:20pm
post #67 of 67
At last, problem found and to be fixed.

It was the monitor all along. More specifically the power plug. If I touch the cable or it moves / normally plugged in, it starts lagging. When I push the cable upwards with strength, the feeling gets way better, but not completely fixes it, just enough to make it natural. If I touch the cable again, it starts heavy lagging. Tried multiple different cables with no luck. Funny enough when I changed the power socket, the feeling also changed, suddenly the cursor is way faster and out of control.

But well, atleast I finally can reproduce the problem all the time that makes me completely sure where the issue is. A replacement monitor is bought. smile.gif
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