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AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 17

post #161 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Back then the argument could be made that it was a new product on the market making watercooling easier for the layman.

I remember reading the first reviews in Maximum PC and knowing the little that I knew then, I was sure that I didn't want a custom loop because parts were not entirely simple to figure out 8 years ago. You had an abundance of incompatible fittings/parts. G3/8 and G1/4. Then you had Radiators that only came with Barbs etc etc etc. Things have come a long way since my dreams of water cooled perfection could be realized.

Then we had the Plasticizer issue gumming up the works and flaky plating issues, which I am sure didn't sit well with water cooling wannabes. I lucked out since only my MB block is Nickel but that flaking Nickel left me kinda worried since the block was manufactured by the company people were trying to burn to the ground over the issue.

But hey if it works who'm I to judge? I only bring up CLCs negatively in that I advise anyone on an old system to look to updating their CLC. Whether that be to a new CLC or a Custom Loop.

Custom loops are easy and have come down quite a bit in price unless you buy the high end kit stuff. thumb.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

Why even consider updating a CLC to another CLC when a AIOs like Switech and EK? AIOs having pumps that will flow 8+ times as much and quality copper radiators that with no fitting or coolant weights as much as an entire CLC are expandable and only costs about 20% more. Or go a step further and buy a kit with all components needed with only assembly and filling needed.

We can judge because our cumulative experience and knowledge has shown what you are saying about CLCs is true. tongue.gif

Did I say upgrade to the same CLC/AIO? mellowsmiley.gif

Nope, pretty sure I din't. thinking.gif

In fact iirc I did mention that I would advise any new owner of a CLC to start saving their shekels over however long their CLC lasts for even a few months at least to protect their investment. It was hard but it's what I did to finally get my 1st loop on a budget. Picked it up nearly 1 part a month it seemed like. I bought mostly used parts except for my CPU block and that I got on Sale as EoL. Kicking myself for returning a block that was sent to me in error. I coulda had an EVO over the Supreme HF block that I got. But that Supreme HF is still in Pristine condition. I love my EK blocks. I now have a Full System Loop. CPU, GPUx2, MB and RAM. GPU are new and RAM is new as well so I went from used to new. So I know it can be done. And I also know full well how expensive watercooling can be.

One thing you left out were complete EK watercooling kits. Everything you need to connect a CPU loop and relatively inexpensive for what you get. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat 

In terms of noise, obviously top tier air coolers are the quietest of the lot in most real life circumstances (the fact that the fans are inside rather than on the perimeter of the case, coupled with the lack of a pump makes this the case most of the time), followed by open loop and CLC being miles behind both. And, yes, you can change your CLCs fans......but performance is going to scale down along with the noise, simply because you are reducing noise by reducing airflow. Unfortunately, the current CLCs on the market are completely airflow reliant - why, you might ask....simple, it is far cheaper to slap on higher rpm fans than it is to start using copper (which has a U-Factor about twice that of aluminum....so they try to do more aluminum to make up for the lack of efficiency....which doesn't really work because it makes the rad's resistance ridiculously high....which also causes ridiculous amounts of noise) rads and a pump that moves enough liquid. Yup, gotta keep those profit margins up and give the customer the least they will possibly keep buying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano 
Using copper would jack the price up significantly. Yes, copper is a better heat conductor than aluminum but it's also expensive. Why do you think there are so many copper thieves out there? Instead of paying $100 for our CLC's we'd end up paying $150 or more.

In terms of price, again air offers by far the best bang for the buck. That one isn't even close.

The air coolers that compete with CLC's are almost at the same price as the CLC's. Not to mention they are ugly giant behemoth's hanging from your CPU. If you want the best performance you need to buy the versions with 2 or 3 fans. The most famous of these coolers is the Noctua NH-D15. The single fan version is $85 right now while the 2 fan version is $90. Most 240 mm CLC's are at that same price point with the 280 mm radiator versions being slightly higher ($100-$150 depending on the brand. Corsair's flagship 280mm cooler is at about $110 right now).

Hyper 212+ is the largest cooler I would ever hang on a board that is set vertically. The bigger the heavier an air cooler is. Also bigger doesn't exactly mean better cooling potential. The heatpipes is where the cooling takes place. Heat dissipates fairly quickly via the plates. The plates can only dissipate so much heat before that heat fails to dissipate to a certain area away from the pipes. There is liquid in Most Air Coolers. That liquid is contained in the Copper pipes and as the liquid heats up it turns to steam as it cools it turns back to liquid to repeat the process. So in effect, those "Air" coolers are minimalistic water cooling solutions. Semantics aside...

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll 

The loudness is merely a function of the fans. It is simple to change fans out. On my system, my fans don't kick in until I hit 60°C which is almost never unless I run synthetic stress tests or benchmarks. My unit is almost completely silent in everyday use even with the stock fans (which are loud at max RPM).
Quote:
Do CLCs have a place? Yes, they do. But that is a subject for a discussion of aesthetics, not really of cooling.

You could say the same about custom loops. Let's face it, their cooling isn't that much better than CLC's or top end air coolers. Better, yes. $500 to $1000 better? Hell no. It's funny you mention CLC's being poor for price to performance, but custom loops are the KING of being nowhere near worth their cost in terms of performance. CLC's are a steal in comparison. Of course, I suspect most people know this but go with custom loops for the DIY/tinkering/enthusiast factor. And that's OK. Nothing wrong with that. I am talking about pure performance, though.

Not to mention custom loops are vastly overpriced compared to the cost to manufacture the parts. You can go to Chinese websites and buy the same stuff for 1/4th the price. $20 for water blocks that are identical to EK's $100 blocks. Etc. All of the big companies make their stuff in China (there is very little not made in China today) and then mark it up 3 or 4 fold. If they are not making it in China, then they're doing it wrong. If it's made in Hungary or Germany or Slovenia or something, then all you're doing is paying a premium for a machine shop in Europe somewhere to machine some copper when the Chinese will do the job for much less (you can't compete with China -- they work for almost nothing). I don't want to get into a "China" debate here, but am only pointing out that it shows that the mark-up on this stuff is ridiculous.

I cannot disagree more with the Bolded part here.

While it IS true that you cannot cool below ambient temp with water(or any other cooler not connected to a Chiller or LN2 pot) Water cooling is actually better in most instances than both Air and CLC systems. My 360 CPU/MB loop easily crushed 40c temps(AVG) at the CPU in Exhaust Pull using nothing but three Yate Loon D12Mid 20mm fans. No Push Pull no, shrouds no BS. Which means I could've gotten better temps had I been running more premium fans like GTs or Noctuas and even paired with shrouds. My h50 had all that and could never achieve less than 40c.

One other thing, longevity for a custom loop is their biggest selling point with me. I can now upgrade my system and transfer my blocks as necessary. Should I wish to watercool my future GPUs, I should be able to relatively cheaply. I already have CPU and RAM blocks. If I go DDR4, I will have to spend a bit to get monarch heatsinks to watercool my RAM, but it's doable. Only block I cannot take with me is the MB block as it's specific to the current board. Not that big a deal since I only got it for the NB factor and not so much for the bling effect that came with it. Which means my loop is WELL worth the cost to performance ratio as I will only have to update minor niggles. While at some point Both Air and CLC coolers will be overtaxed and unable to perform to the same level. Sure they can be swapped over to new board and chip solutions, but they cannot cool much more than the CPU in most cases unless you spend moar to add in the same blocks I have. Every year I run my setup and on every system the Price for Performance index goes down. Pretty soon that index will be so insignificant I will have stopped caring. thumb.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #162 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

The amount of false information here is pretty astonishing.

-A copper radiator is definitely possible for less than said asetek/corsair etc junk even, proof: Fractal Design Kelvin S24.

-Quality based on Newegg reviews... Have you ever read some of those reviews? The incompetence of some of those people is incomprehensible. Also people with a defective unit, be it because it was actually defective or because a fault of their own are much more likely to write a review, and based on so little reviews to boot is highly inaccurate.

-The cheap alu rads on asetek etc units require high fan speeds because of their extremely high fin density(compensating for fact they're alu). So no, its not simply a matter of changing out fans. And the fact they come with less than great fans on top of that problem surely isn't helping your defense of CLC's.

-Since when do CPU only custom loops cost $500-1000? wth.gif

Why do people not understand the whole aluminum rad/low flow pump/high speed fan link? And why do they insist that lowering CFM and SP has no affect on performance? It's baffling......
post #163 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Did I say upgrade to the same CLC/AIO? mellowsmiley.gif

Nope, pretty sure I din't. thinking.gif

In fact iirc I did mention that I would advise any new owner of a CLC to start saving their shekels over however long their CLC lasts for even a few months at least to protect their investment. It was hard but it's what I did to finally get my 1st loop on a budget. Picked it up nearly 1 part a month it seemed like. I bought mostly used parts except for my CPU block and that I got on Sale as EoL. Kicking myself for returning a block that was sent to me in error. I coulda had an EVO over the Supreme HF block that I got. But that Supreme HF is still in Pristine condition. I love my EK blocks. I now have a Full System Loop. CPU, GPUx2, MB and RAM. GPU are new and RAM is new as well so I went from used to new. So I know it can be done. And I also know full well how expensive watercooling can be.

One thing you left out were complete EK watercooling kits. Everything you need to connect a CPU loop and relatively inexpensive for what you get. biggrin.gif
Hyper 212+ is the largest cooler I would ever hang on a board that is set vertically. The bigger the heavier an air cooler is. Also bigger doesn't exactly mean better cooling potential. The heatpipes is where the cooling takes place. Heat dissipates fairly quickly via the plates. The plates can only dissipate so much heat before that heat fails to dissipate to a certain area away from the pipes. There is liquid in Most Air Coolers. That liquid is contained in the Copper pipes and as the liquid heats up it turns to steam as it cools it turns back to liquid to repeat the process. So in effect, those "Air" coolers are minimalistic water cooling solutions. Semantics aside...
I cannot disagree more with the Bolded part here.

While it IS true that you cannot cool below ambient temp with water(or any other cooler not connected to a Chiller or LN2 pot) Water cooling is actually better in most instances than both Air and CLC systems. My 360 CPU/MB loop easily crushed 40c temps(AVG) at the CPU in Exhaust Pull using nothing but three Yate Loon D12Mid 20mm fans. No Push Pull no, shrouds no BS. Which means I could've gotten better temps had I been running more premium fans like GTs or Noctuas and even paired with shrouds. My h50 had all that and could never achieve less than 40c.

One other thing, longevity for a custom loop is their biggest selling point with me. I can now upgrade my system and transfer my blocks as necessary. Should I wish to watercool my future GPUs, I should be able to relatively cheaply. I already have CPU and RAM blocks. If I go DDR4, I will have to spend a bit to get monarch heatsinks to watercool my RAM, but it's doable. Only block I cannot take with me is the MB block as it's specific to the current board. Not that big a deal since I only got it for the NB factor and not so much for the bling effect that came with it. Which means my loop is WELL worth the cost to performance ratio as I will only have to update minor niggles. While at some point Both Air and CLC coolers will be overtaxed and unable to perform to the same level. Sure they can be swapped over to new board and chip solutions, but they cannot cool much more than the CPU in most cases unless you spend moar to add in the same blocks I have. Every year I run my setup and on every system the Price for Performance index goes down. Pretty soon that index will be so insignificant I will have stopped caring. thumb.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
Don't know how you did it, but much of your above post is mangled with all kinds of statement I never posted.

But first you said
Quote:
But hey if it works who'm I to judge? I only bring up CLCs negatively in that I advise anyone on an old system to look to updating their CLC. Whether that be to a new CLC or a Custom Loop.
So no, you did not say 'same' CLC .. but I did not ask about 'same' CLC. I asked about replacing with another CLC.

Nothing heavier than a 212? WOW!! That is really over the top! Sorry, because there is no reason not to. They do not damage the motherboards. I have mounted about 100 of the biggest coolers in tower build and never had a problem with a single one. All have been 700g to 1kg.

As for the 'how heat pipe coolers work', you have the basic concept but are lacking a great deal in the details. Heatpipe size, type of wicking used, assembly (pipes pressed into base and fins vs soldered) make a big difference in cooling ability. To this we add the fin design and how it effects airflow in fin pack and around the pipes. Some of the best coolers I've use are not the biggest .. some are among the biggest made. wink.gif
Edited by doyll - 6/24/16 at 2:35pm
post #164 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

-A copper radiator is definitely possible for less than said asetek/corsair etc junk even, proof: Fractal Design Kelvin S24.

Right now it is going for $182 on Amazon. Not to mention the Corsair H105 out-performed it according to Techpowerup and OC3D (both reported about the same results). So why spend $180 when you can spend less than $100 for more performance? It just makes no sense.
Quote:
-Quality based on Newegg reviews... Have you ever read some of those reviews? The incompetence of some of those people is incomprehensible. Also people with a defective unit, be it because it was actually defective or because a fault of their own are much more likely to write a review, and based on so little reviews to boot is highly inaccurate.

One guy received it leaking in the box. I highly doubt that's his fault. Another guy claims the pump stopped working. I doubt that's his fault (unless he took it apart and added sand to the coolant or something). But there aren't many reviews in general (on Newegg at least) which is one reason I decided not to go with it.
Quote:
-The cheap alu rads on asetek etc units require high fan speeds because of their extremely high fin density(compensating for fact they're alu). So no, its not simply a matter of changing out fans. And the fact they come with less than great fans on top of that problem surely isn't helping your defense of CLC's.

The Fractal all copper radiator on their CLC's do not outperform the aluminum rads on Corsair and other units. So that point is moot.
Quote:
-Since when do CPU only custom loops cost $500-1000? wth.gif

You'll spend more on a custom loop (even just for the CPU) especially if you go with the "name brands" like EK. I see no reason whatsoever to go with a custom loop if you KNOW all you'll be cooling is the CPU.
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post #165 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I'm guessing this thread has been so thoroughly derailed that we'll never hear @Mayhem's responses about... you know, the topic of this thread.

I just want him to define short term.
 
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post #166 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

Right now it is going for $182 on Amazon. Not to mention the Corsair H105 out-performed it according to Techpowerup and OC3D (both reported about the same results). So why spend $180 when you can spend less than $100 for more performance? It just makes no sense.
The reason the S24 is so expensive in the USA is because it technically isn't allowed to be sold there because of Asetek's (frankly ridiculous) patents. In Europe were it is allowed to be sold, You can get the S24 for min €98 and the H105 for min €118.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

One guy received it leaking in the box. I highly doubt that's his fault. Another guy claims the pump stopped working. I doubt that's his fault (unless he took it apart and added sand to the coolant or something). But there aren't many reviews in general (on Newegg at least) which is one reason I decided not to go with it.
Leaks can happen, but should be very rare, again, due to the small pool of reviews your point is moot. And the guy with the "dead" pump is very likely to be responsible, I haven't heard of a DOA DDC pump in ages. If you know anything about watercooling you know that DDC's are in order of magnitudes more reliable than the pumps used in CLC's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

The Fractal all copper radiator on their CLC's do not outperform the aluminum rads on Corsair and other units. So that point is moot.
It frankly isn't moot, the only thing those lacking reviews looked at is raw performance, equip both coolers with the same quiet low rpm fans and the S24 will absolutely crush the H105.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

You'll spend more on a custom loop (even just for the CPU) especially if you go with the "name brands" like EK. I see no reason whatsoever to go with a custom loop if you KNOW all you'll be cooling is the CPU.
Again you mentioned $500-1000 which is absolutely ridiculous, a more than adequate custom EKWB CPU loop will set you back a max of $300. and $250 or less is possible too.

All your arguments show how embarrassingly little you know about the subject, and unfortunately that seems to be the case with most people like you.
post #167 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles3000 View Post

It frankly isn't moot, the only thing those lacking reviews looked at is raw performance, equip both coolers with the same quiet low rpm fans and the S24 will absolutely crush the H105.

You can read the reviews. Even on quiet mode, the H105 and the H100i were equal or outperforming the S24. The Kraken X61 was 2 degrees hotter than the S24 when the Kraken was running in its quietest mode. In my experience, fan speed on these CLC's don't make a huge difference. You might see 5°C between "quiet mode" and "performance mode." Depending on the workload (something without AVX instructions) your temps will be just fine on quiet mode.
Quote:
Again you mentioned $500-1000 which is absolutely ridiculous, a more than adequate custom EKWB CPU loop will set you back a max of $300. and $250 or less is possible too.

Still too much money for those of us who aren't hobbyists when a air-cooler or a CLC will give similar performance (not quite as good, but certainly good enough). If someone is a hobbyist and likes building loops to get those extra few degrees, there's nothing wrong with that. Why is it that us CLC people can accept custom loop people, but the custom loop people (like Mayhems) decide to start threads demeaning everyone else?
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post #168 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Did I say upgrade to the same CLC/AIO? mellowsmiley.gif

Nope, pretty sure I din't. thinking.gif

In fact iirc I did mention that I would advise any new owner of a CLC to start saving their shekels over however long their CLC lasts for even a few months at least to protect their investment. It was hard but it's what I did to finally get my 1st loop on a budget. Picked it up nearly 1 part a month it seemed like. I bought mostly used parts except for my CPU block and that I got on Sale as EoL. Kicking myself for returning a block that was sent to me in error. I coulda had an EVO over the Supreme HF block that I got. But that Supreme HF is still in Pristine condition. I love my EK blocks. I now have a Full System Loop. CPU, GPUx2, MB and RAM. GPU are new and RAM is new as well so I went from used to new. So I know it can be done. And I also know full well how expensive watercooling can be.

One thing you left out were complete EK watercooling kits. Everything you need to connect a CPU loop and relatively inexpensive for what you get. biggrin.gif
Hyper 212+ is the largest cooler I would ever hang on a board that is set vertically. The bigger the heavier an air cooler is. Also bigger doesn't exactly mean better cooling potential. The heatpipes is where the cooling takes place. Heat dissipates fairly quickly via the plates. The plates can only dissipate so much heat before that heat fails to dissipate to a certain area away from the pipes. There is liquid in Most Air Coolers. That liquid is contained in the Copper pipes and as the liquid heats up it turns to steam as it cools it turns back to liquid to repeat the process. So in effect, those "Air" coolers are minimalistic water cooling solutions. Semantics aside...
I cannot disagree more with the Bolded part here.

While it IS true that you cannot cool below ambient temp with water(or any other cooler not connected to a Chiller or LN2 pot) Water cooling is actually better in most instances than both Air and CLC systems. My 360 CPU/MB loop easily crushed 40c temps(AVG) at the CPU in Exhaust Pull using nothing but three Yate Loon D12Mid 20mm fans. No Push Pull no, shrouds no BS. Which means I could've gotten better temps had I been running more premium fans like GTs or Noctuas and even paired with shrouds. My h50 had all that and could never achieve less than 40c.

One other thing, longevity for a custom loop is their biggest selling point with me. I can now upgrade my system and transfer my blocks as necessary. Should I wish to watercool my future GPUs, I should be able to relatively cheaply. I already have CPU and RAM blocks. If I go DDR4, I will have to spend a bit to get monarch heatsinks to watercool my RAM, but it's doable. Only block I cannot take with me is the MB block as it's specific to the current board. Not that big a deal since I only got it for the NB factor and not so much for the bling effect that came with it. Which means my loop is WELL worth the cost to performance ratio as I will only have to update minor niggles. While at some point Both Air and CLC coolers will be overtaxed and unable to perform to the same level. Sure they can be swapped over to new board and chip solutions, but they cannot cool much more than the CPU in most cases unless you spend moar to add in the same blocks I have. Every year I run my setup and on every system the Price for Performance index goes down. Pretty soon that index will be so insignificant I will have stopped caring. thumb.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

Don't know how you did it, but much of your above post is mangled with all kinds of statement I never posted.


But first you said
Quote:
But hey if it works who'm I to judge? I only bring up CLCs negatively in that I advise anyone on an old system to look to updating their CLC. Whether that be to a new CLC or a Custom Loop.
So no, you did not say 'same' CLC .. but I did not ask about 'same' CLC. I asked about replacing with another CLC.

Nothing heavier than a 212? WOW!! That is really over the top! Sorry, because there is no reason not to. They do not damage the motherboards. I have mounted about 100 of the biggest coolers in tower build and never had a problem with a single one. All have been 700g to 1kg.

As for the 'how heat pipe coolers work', you have the basic concept but are lacking a great deal in the details. Heatpipe size, type of wicking used, assembly (pipes pressed into base and fins vs soldered) make a big difference in cooling ability. To this we add the fin design and how it effects airflow in fin pack and around the pipes. Some of the best coolers I've use are not the biggest .. some are among the biggest made. wink.gif

Yeah dunno how that worked out but it seems that OCN is having issues. I know of a couple times where I went to post and nothing appeared. I've actually copied my posts and refreshed and bang, there they are. iBruce ended up triple posting in succession the same reply is how I know this happened to more than a couple of us. mellowsmiley.gif

No I have the concept. Just chose not to expound completely on it. Yeah I get that my no larger than a 212 is pretty over the top. But most systems I build are budget systems. People who can barely afford to cobble one together. They aren't into Gaming like I am(a few are) but all of them surf the web and hate stock cooling as they are too noisy. Yes you can put bigger coolers on but it's just a waste of money for these people so why bother? As long as the 212 can keep temps under 50c for them I know I won't be seeing a return that takes labor time that I don't get paid for. thumb.gif

Bent MBs are secondary. Simply missed adding this info. Apologies. blushsmiley.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #169 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1rrah View Post

I have an original Corsair H100 that's been running fine every day for 4 years ... cools the same as it did the day I installed it. I've seen no degradation or otherwise signs that it won't last another four years.

Few days back I posted this in the Corsair AIO thread

http://www.overclock.net/t/1144409/h80-h80i-h90-h100-h100i-h110-case-compatibility-thread-page-1-for-full-listings/1450_50#post_25280518
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllGamer View Post

so 5 years later, my very first H80 finally gave up, the pump doesn't work anymore, but everything else is fine

too bad the pump is right at the CPU block itself, otherwise replacing it with a new pump would have keep this fine AIO loop in good working order for probably another 5 years until something breaks again.

i took it apart to see the inside and surely enough just as shown in many youtube videos, the copper fins were filled with this mucus type slime thing, which is probably what killed the pump.

also you can technically refill the whole loop without opening any holes, but just disassembling the CPU block and let it drain/refill from it.

disassembling the CPU block was actually quite a nice and clean project, no risk to break any parts, other than the liquid pouring out after you separate the copper fins from the casket/pump block.



I replaced the H80 with a DeepCool Captain 120, nice red breathing effect, with translucent red coolant flow.

It's exactly as the OP described.

but regardless of that, hell it's very easy and affordable these things, so I don't care if they die every 5 years, they are good and simple

Even a CPU Heat Sink Fan combo will die in less time than an AIO, replacing several fans will cost just as much as buying an AIO that last 5 years.


That being said, I'm making a new rig with custom water loops, time to go all in, running the AIO was a warm up to the real toys wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Knowing how efficient and quiet water works in a PC, I can't go back to air, and AIO seems very limited when you try to water everything inside the PC (CPU+VRMs+SLI Video Cars+etc)
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post #170 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

Yeah dunno how that worked out but it seems that OCN is having issues. I know of a couple times where I went to post and nothing appeared. I've actually copied my posts and refreshed and bang, there they are. iBruce ended up triple posting in succession the same reply is how I know this happened to more than a couple of us. mellowsmiley.gif

No I have the concept. Just chose not to expound completely on it. Yeah I get that my no larger than a 212 is pretty over the top. But most systems I build are budget systems. People who can barely afford to cobble one together. They aren't into Gaming like I am(a few are) but all of them surf the web and hate stock cooling as they are too noisy. Yes you can put bigger coolers on but it's just a waste of money for these people so why bother? As long as the 212 can keep temps under 50c for them I know I won't be seeing a return that takes labor time that I don't get paid for. thumb.gif

Bent MBs are secondary. Simply missed adding this info. Apologies. blushsmiley.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
Yeah, I've had some problems posting too; not posting, double posting, posting when it shouldn't, etc.

Mid to small sized coolers like 212 are fine for most people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllGamer View Post

Few days back I posted this in the Corsair AIO thread

http://www.overclock.net/t/1144409/h80-h80i-h90-h100-h100i-h110-case-compatibility-thread-page-1-for-full-listings/1450_50#post_25280518
It's exactly as the OP described.

but regardless of that, hell it's very easy and affordable these things, so I don't care if they die every 5 years, they are good and simple

Even a CPU Heat Sink Fan combo will die in less time than an AIO, replacing several fans will cost just as much as buying an AIO that last 5 years.


That being said, I'm making a new rig with custom water loops, time to go all in, running the AIO was a warm up to the real toys wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Knowing how efficient and quiet water works in a PC, I can't go back to air, and AIO seems very limited when you try to water everything inside the PC (CPU+VRMs+SLI Video Cars+etc)
What @Mayhem said is accurate for sure.

But CLC are not 'efficient and quiet'. Air is much much better .. and won't die like your CLC did. wink.gif
Edited by doyll - 6/24/16 at 10:32pm
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