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AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 18

post #171 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

But CLC are not 'efficient and quiet'. Air is much much better .. and won't die like your CLC did. wink.gif

I don't quite agree in that remark with my stack of dead 120mm and 80mm fans sitting in a bin of e-waste waiting to be disposed / recycled soon.

there are 2 more dead 120mm fans in one of my server I still haven't got to replace yet.

tried every brand, with and or without hydro lube, brush-less or brushed, they all die usually in a couple of years (good brands) or less (if they are from cheap brands)

of course, perhaps these fans were not meant to be run 24/7 all year round non-stop.
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post #172 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllGamer View Post

I don't quite agree in that remark with my stack of dead 120mm and 80mm fans sitting in a bin of e-waste waiting to be disposed / recycled soon.

there are 2 more dead 120mm fans in one of my server I still haven't got to replace yet.

tried every brand, with and or without hydro lube, brush-less or brushed, they all die usually in a couple of years (good brands) or less (if they are from cheap brands)

of course, perhaps these fans were not meant to be run 24/7 all year round non-stop.
At least you don't totally disagree and start spouting data and beliefs from some imaginary world like some. thumb.gif
Sure, fans die regardless of what they are used on, but why you think a CLC fan will last longer than an air cooler fan is really the question. The physics of it would say fans will last longer on air coolers simply because the create less resistance than CLC radiator. But that is too nit-picky to even consider as valid. Too many other variables affecting bearing life involved. How long do your fans typically last? A good fan should easily last 5+ years. Most cheap fans that last at least 3+ years, some many more.
post #173 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

You can read the reviews. Even on quiet mode, the H105 and the H100i were equal or outperforming the S24. The Kraken X61 was 2 degrees hotter than the S24 when the Kraken was running in its quietest mode. In my experience, fan speed on these CLC's don't make a huge difference. You might see 5°C between "quiet mode" and "performance mode." Depending on the workload (something without AVX instructions) your temps will be just fine on quiet mode.
Still too much money for those of us who aren't hobbyists when a air-cooler or a CLC will give similar performance (not quite as good, but certainly good enough). If someone is a hobbyist and likes building loops to get those extra few degrees, there's nothing wrong with that. Why is it that us CLC people can accept custom loop people, but the custom loop people (like Mayhems) decide to start threads demeaning everyone else?

Wait....somebody tested the H105, H110i and X61....and said that the H105 and H110i offered better performance? And you didn't immediately discount this review as flawed or as tainted by ad dollars? Or you just took it as face value since you have never tested these three yourself? If you had, you would know that is far from correct, especially at lower fan speeds. Just simple rational thinking would let you know that - same pump, same block and the X61 has a larger rad of exactly the same design (front surface area means far more than thickness....but, that is common knowledge in the open loop community) so it has better low speed dissipation. That is simple physics, and as much as Corsair and their supporters would like you to believe it, the little sailboat doesn't make it defy physics.

But that is a running theme, CLC defenders who have never used top tier air, open loop or even had the opportunity to tests CLCs against each other (not that it actually matters much, same pump, same blocks, same rad design, just different fans and different rad sizes). This in a way answers your question regarding "open loop people". You will be hard pressed to find someone who knows open loops (the rash of open loop users doing it for looks and having the systems pre-built for them really don't count as "knowing" open loop) who hasn't used top tier air or CLCs for first hand comparison. On the other hand, CLC defenders can very, very rarely give you their first hand experiences with top tier air or open loop - you might be lucky to get a "cools better than the $25 212 EVO I had!". Though one of the first posts in this thread is by someone pointing out that switching from an H90 to a 212 EVO made no performance difference and is a quieter experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

One guy received it leaking in the box. I highly doubt that's his fault. Another guy claims the pump stopped working. I doubt that's his fault (unless he took it apart and added sand to the coolant or something). But there aren't many reviews in general (on Newegg at least) which is one reason I decided not to go with it.

"One guy received it leaking out of the box". Hey, ever Google "H110i GT Leak"? Let me do that for you - https://www.google.com/search?q=H110i+GT+leak&oq=H110i+GT+leak - wow, that sure is a lot more than one guy. How about the Raijintek Tritons that came with a built in drink dispenser? And leaks aren't even an issue being discussed here, but it would be a really bad subject for you to try to drag in to defend CLCs.

Would you like to peruse the 1968 page thread (http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-h320-h220x-h240x-h140x-and-cm-glacer-240l-360l-owners-club) of really happy Swiftech owners (many of whom are happy to tell you what a huge upgrade it was from their CLC) for instances where new owners were shown that their "dead pump" was a case of being unable to follow the manual to actually power it? Want to guess how many of those "dead pumps" were people assuming that the PWM signal from the MB was going to magically power it? Did you actively think "where is the absolute last place a liquid cooler would shop?", and then look at "reviews" there? You seem to be a master of finding the worst possible sources for information.
Edited by ciarlatano - 6/25/16 at 4:59am
post #174 of 366
Without knowing they both use the same rad design you can't say just bc one rad is larger it's going to be better. Let's say that two rads are made of the same material but one is 280mm and one is 240mm and same thickness and appearance on the outside. Obviously the 280mm will dissipate more heat correct? Not always. If you are comparing the same model then yes this is true if you are comparing two different brands than its possible the 240mm rad can have a higher effectiveness. Good rads trip the fluid flow repeatedly to ensure the fluid stays turbulent or constantly tumbling. Turbulent flow increases the heat transfer to the fluid a lot. The location of the trip sites and the effective use of the turbulent fluid can vary vastly between different manufactures. I only say this to simply point out just bc they use the same pump and same rad size unless the radiator is the exact same one can easily out perform another. Not saying this is the case here since I do not know anything about those two products but figured I would add this anyways wink.gif


Always destroying exergy
post #175 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle1721 View Post

Without knowing they both use the same rad design you can't say just bc one rad is larger it's going to be better. Let's say that two rads are made of the same material but one is 280mm and one is 240mm and same thickness and appearance on the outside. Obviously the 280mm will dissipate more heat correct? Not always. If you are comparing the same model then yes this is true if you are comparing two different brands than its possible the 240mm rad can have a higher effectiveness. Good rads trip the fluid flow repeatedly to ensure the fluid stays turbulent or constantly tumbling. Turbulent flow increases the heat transfer to the fluid a lot. The location of the trip sites and the effective use of the turbulent fluid can vary vastly between different manufactures. I only say this to simply point out just bc they use the same pump and same rad size unless the radiator is the exact same one can easily out perform another. Not saying this is the case here since I do not know anything about those two products but figured I would add this anyways wink.gif


Always destroying exergy

That would be correct - but we are talking about two Asetek rads of exactly the same design, with the only variance being size. You need to remember something, the "brand" here is nothing more than what logo goes on the pump and what fans are included. These are off the shelf Asetek pieces.
post #176 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle1721 View Post

Without knowing they both use the same rad design you can't say just bc one rad is larger it's going to be better. Let's say that two rads are made of the same material but one is 280mm and one is 240mm and same thickness and appearance on the outside. Obviously the 280mm will dissipate more heat correct? Not always. If you are comparing the same model then yes this is true if you are comparing two different brands than its possible the 240mm rad can have a higher effectiveness. Good rads trip the fluid flow repeatedly to ensure the fluid stays turbulent or constantly tumbling. Turbulent flow increases the heat transfer to the fluid a lot. The location of the trip sites and the effective use of the turbulent fluid can vary vastly between different manufactures. I only say this to simply point out just bc they use the same pump and same rad size unless the radiator is the exact same one can easily out perform another. Not saying this is the case here since I do not know anything about those two products but figured I would add this anyways wink.gif


Always destroying exergy

That would be correct - but we are talking about two Asetek rads of exactly the same design, with the only variance being size. You need to remember something, the "brand" here is nothing more than what logo goes on the pump and what fans are included. These are off the shelf Asetek pieces.
I figured they were prob the same which is why I tried making it clear that this may not be the case here but I see so many people make statements about how size and thickness is all that matters. Just wanted to squash that before it started here wink.gif. Not saying it doesn't matter just saying effectiveness is just as important if not more important.


Always destroying exergy
post #177 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by superkyle1721 View Post

I figured they were prob the same which is why I tried making it clear that this may not be the case here but I see so many people make statements about how size and thickness is all that matters. Just wanted to squash that before it started here wink.gif. Not saying it doesn't matter just saying effectiveness is just as important if not more important.


Always destroying exergy

See, now you are getting into all that complicated open loop stuff. tongue.gif

You actually reminded me of the Charlie Brown Snoopy Peppermint Pattie Linus video where his sidekick couldn't figure out how the H220-X performed on par with the X60 and said something like "if a 240mm outperformed a 280mm I would have to think there is something wrong". I was like "ever heard of Q-Value?????? think there might be some design differences going on there, as well?????? single pass vs. dual pass?????". It may have been the most ignorant statement I have ever seen from a well known paid advertising channel "reviewer". The statement should have been along the lines of "this is a great example of the larger size and much higher speed fans that a typical aluminum CLC radiator requires to keep up with an entry level 240mm radiator with midrange fans".
Edited by ciarlatano - 6/25/16 at 8:44am
post #178 of 366
Been using a Corsair H50 for 7 years, I have re-used it 3 times now and its currently working on my Mini ITX build on my 4790K, temps are more than fine with a 4.6GHz overclock at 1.255 Core, never going above 70c while gaming and 88c on 8 hours of Prime95.

7 Years!
post #179 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Been using a Corsair H50 for 7 years, I have re-used it 3 times now and its currently working on my Mini ITX build on my 4790K, temps are more than fine with a 4.6GHz overclock at 1.255 Core, never going above 70c while gaming and 88c on 8 hours of Prime95.

7 Years!
I sure hope you knocked on wood several times while posting that. biggrin.gif
A few CLCs have been very good to their owners. Many more have not been.
post #180 of 366
Prove that. If they're were so unreliable, people wouldn't buy them. Unless of course they offered good enough value for the money that it's a worthwhile purchase.

Happy customers are silent customers.
 
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