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AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 4

post #31 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by TTheuns View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's Box View Post

I dumped my H90 last month in favor of a coolermaster hyper 212 EVO. CPU runs at the same frequency, is quieter, and is running at the same temp as it was under the H90. Reason I replaced it was I was hearing gurgling noises from the H90, figured best to be proactive and replace it before it breaks and takes something out with it. I had the H90 for 3.5 years
My Corsair H105 has been making that kind of noise once every 2 hours since the day I installed it. Still running, so should be fine. I do agree for 120mm AIOs an air cooler is a way better option.
You completely missed the most important part of what Pandora's Box's post
CPU runs at the same frequency, is quieter, and is running at the same temp as it was under the H90

@Nichismo
*sigh*

What is the difference between picking all your 'custom loop' pieces your self and buying a kit of the same or similar pieces .. besides the price?

You need to differentiate between 'AIO' and 'CLC'. True, CLC are a sub-group of AIO, but only Swiftech and EK sell AIO coolers that are not CLC.
Therefore many of us consider
pre-filled component kits with pumps mounted on radiators to be AIOs
versus
factory sealed extremely low powered pump block and hi-density all aluminum radiator systems to be CLCs
post #32 of 366
A thread made by a rep, for a company that sells custom loop parts, railing against closed loops, products that compete directly against custom loops.

Hmm...
post #33 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majentrix View Post

A thread made by a rep, for a company that sells custom loop parts, railing against closed loops, products that compete directly against custom loops.

Hmm...
I guess you are another member of the CLC cult & zealot community.

When will you guys start demanding the removal of all air coolers .. and require veils be put over all air cooled systems. biggrin.gif

Does that sound kinda crazy to you? Kinda like the crazy claims in your post? tongue.gif

He's not a component rep, but a coolant rep.

You don't seem to even know the difference between coolant and component.

So I guess there is no point trying to talk reason with you.


For all readers:
I think we need to refine our definitions.
All computer water cooling loops I know of are 'closed loops'.
A closed loop means it has sealed, not that is has no way to access the coolant to add / change it.
Custom loops have removable plugs .. same as AIOs like Swiftech and EK do.
CLC are 'hermetically sealed' loops. They have no provision plug or provision for adding or changing coolant.

Can we also differentiate between 'AIO' and 'CLC'?
True, CLC are a sub-group of AIO, but only Swiftech and EK sell AIO coolers that are not CLC.
Many of us consider
pre-filled component kits with pumps mounted on radiators to be AIOs
versus
factory sealed extremely low powered pump block and hi-density all aluminum radiator systems to be CLCs

Edited by doyll - 6/22/16 at 3:38am
post #34 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

"wants you to spend 1,000$" are you kidding?? the dude sells COOLANT and COOLANT ADDITIVES....

lol your exaggerations are ridiculous, and sure, just because the OP produces a product that can only be used with custom loops, does not imply the connotations you make here... Have you ever considered the fact that maybe some people like you say, have hobbies that they love and enjoy, and then end up somehow creating a business or profiting from said hobby? Watercooling is a niche market..... even after all this growth, every single company out there (even one as big as EK) still started as 1 guy who was simply an enthusiast whom loved to overclock.... so dont bring your negative corporate motivations in here because its just not true....

the only way CLCs have gotten better is in the sense that they have steered toward CUSTOM loop characteristics.... You cant sit there and make broad statements about custom loops and play them off as fact because custom loops are just that... CUSTOM, so every single one is different, built for different purposes.... and regardless, you say yourself that you wouldn't build a custom loop of expensive components so obviously you could never speak for any sort of characteristics or direction behind one.

Its just so annoying for me when I see people like you talk in such a fashion.... because its just ignorance at its finest. It always makes me wonder if you go up to people who are driving Ferraris. or Lamborghinis, or wearing Rolex watches and then make the same silly remarks to them.
*sigh*

again, trying to speak in regards to custom loops in the way you have is simply not factual.... CUSTOM is case-by-case and specially crafted for each individual....

and regardless, with that being said, your belief that a custom loop isnt that big of a difference is RIDICULOUS. You must have done something way off when building your first loop or just lacking basic fundamental understanding of heat and fluid dynamics.

My first loop was VERY basic and I still had a 25c difference on average with my CPU and 40c nearly with my graphics card.... I was using an Asrock M8 with a 4770k, even with stock clocks and the side panel off, at 100% load with prime 95 my CPU couldnt get a single core under 70c when stress testing and was LOUD. After building a custom loop with JUST a 120mm radiator and a swiftech apogee CPU block that has an integrated DDC pump, my CPU was averaging right around 50c per core under the same stress testing parameters.

Its really simple guys.... just look at the bigger picture, its not hard to understand how the typical components that people use when building their custom loops have HUGE advantages over a simple AIO.

Yea cuz its so hard to hook up a water block, a 240mm rad a pump and some hoses lol. Yea ok i did something wrong. My i5 4690k is one of the coolest running CPUs in the delid thread but yea i guess idk what im doing.

You are sounding JUST like Mayhems did when they blamed jayztwocents for his coolant that changed colors and then blamed him for it. Sure sure im an idiot and have been building PC for 15years but yea idk what im doing. I will ignore this baseless ridiculousness. Oh but wait i did drop 30°C from the Intel stock cooler so there you go holy Jesus Christ in heaven i did drop 30°C off a useless cooler. From my Noctua Nh-U14S (one of the BEST air coolers) didnt drop much and Doyll agreed so there you go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Indeed!

And when we are talking 54c to 50c we are not really making any difference in anything. 54c (even on an AMD) is very good. Lowering it to 50c is just 'bragging rights' than 'improved cooling]'. Don't get me wrong, I do it all the time .. even if it make no real difference is system life or noise levels. It's that darn cooling monkey on my back. biggrin.gif

Sorry, but saying you get 4c better cooling with a good $500 cooling loop compared to an air cooler costing $70 is not playing fair. You could probably lower your temps another 4c with better waterblock and more radiator .. for another $400+.

I agree, it's GPU cooling that is the challange on air. CPUs are a cake walk.
It is much harder to achieve quiet GPUs on air, especially multiple GPUs.

I don't know of any off the shelf GPU with full cover waterblock .. only CPU CLCs adapted to mount on GPU processor .. meaning everything else that need cooling has to be done with air.

But there really are no GPU air coolers designed to keep cool intake air separate from their heated exhaust air. Well, the reference blowers kinda do, but they are definitely not quiet.

Totally agreed there, i was shocked when my temps went from 54°C to 50°C but it was expected when i was running a single 240mm, adding another 360mm and a very restrictive gpu block dropped those temps down to around 45°C or so, then bare die i can run the same temps with more voltage at around 46°C at time of testing. The Noctua at 1.2v would probably be closer to 60°C if not more.

Cough cough Radeon Pro Duo cools everything with water thumb.gif

Oh and i didn't go water to get better temps on my cpu, did it for the GPU, i knew right off the bat from reading this thread the cpu wouldnt drop much. Yea if i run a 1080 rad with 8x120mm fans im sure my temps will be stupid low. But whats the point? System is quiet and runs cool what more could i ask for.
    
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post #35 of 366
So much bashing on AIOs/CLCs...they are fine, for their intended purpose. People really just want to see the market shift away from them for whatever reason...(Mayhems? Wonder why...), but I would say if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em, don't make it your life's mission to make sure no one else on the planet wants to use them either. Why people get up in arms about this crap...why don't we just list the best of every product segment in our hobby, then we can all build identical PCs with only the top parts?
Edited by Aaron_Henderson - 6/22/16 at 3:58am
post #36 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post

So much bashing on AIOs...they are fine, for their intended purpose. People really just want to see the market shift away from them for whatever reason...(Mayhems? Wonder why...), but I would say if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em, don't make it your life's mission to make sure no one else on the planet wants to use them either.

Well there is a HUGE difference between AIOs and CLCs though. AIOs are far FAR better quality and the ekwb one pretty much has a DDC pump built in and is expendable. For the money its the best premade kit/cooler there is for water and with those ek vadar fans its pretty quiet.

I do agree that some CLCs are utter garbage,but saying they all are is nonsense. Thats like saying all ferraris are crap because a few burned down lol.
    
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post #37 of 366
Oh and PS. The guy that posts this in another thread yet uses it as a comparison to test temps in another thread when 70-50 clearly equals 20 and not 25 will be taken with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

Imo Prime95 is terrible and outdated for stability testing.... way too overzealous.

completely inconsistent too towards demands it places on your hardware in regards to like programs.
lol theres nothing to "fix" as it was never a bug/glitch or flaw, its simply the problem with the entire program in itself.

it reminds me of how you can go with these "auto" overclock profiles that motherboard manufacturers implement into their BIOS's as a selling point. Its cool as an idea, but in reality you realize that at the end of the day, all they can do is give you an overclock, along with an absurd amount of voltage so that they can ensure your system wont crash at any point. Nevermind all the apparent flaws with such a thing
    
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post #38 of 366
I'm not a "clc zealot", I use an air cooler and would recommend using one over a CLC in all but very specific circumstances. And I didn't mention anything about components or coolants, that was all you buddy.

What I'm getting at is that the OP has a vested interest in seeing CLCs fail.
post #39 of 366
No doubt CLC coolers have a definite lifespan but to be fair most of the users here at OCN probably plan a completely rebuild more frequently than every 4 years.

I did hear that the H50 died on a PC I built in 2009 (i7-920), it lasted nearly 6 years. I guess OP would be proud to know that the current owner bought a heatsink/fan to replace it.
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post #40 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

lol your so pathetic, pulling up crap like that in order to somehow make yourself look better.

remind us, what exactly does my opinion on prime95s validity as a stress test have to do with the effectiveness of CLCs vs custom loops? ive experimented with every which way possible out there to test "stability" with an overclock so of course im going to have some opinions on the effectiveness of each one....

grow up.
great elaboration, just the whole nature of your posts just shows how little you can offer in the way of relevant discussion.... your sarcasm (on a forum?) is just plain silly.

and its funny that you mention your 4690k is one of the coolest running CPUs, apparently you got lucky in the silicon lottery, and that just adds to your lack of experience when it comes to thermal dynamics and effective cooling. Perhaps your 4690k is such a fantastic CPU that it never needed liquid cooling in the first place.... Sure seems like thats the case.

I, on the other hand, until getting my current 5930k, have had terrible luck with the CPUs ive purchased when it comes to overclocking capabilties. But just to give you an idea, ive owned 3 different 4770ks, a 4570, a 4930k, a 5930k and an AMD 9590, and ive also owned 2 different motherboards for all but 1 of each of those CPUs..... and ive also built more than 1 custom loop, torn it down, rebuilt it again for each of those CPUs as well..... so I can speak from experience in regards to fluid dynamics and its respective effects on heat.

Yea i was busting your balls. And yea i offer so little. Check the rep count lol.

A 4690k at 1.2v and a bad lottery 4690k at 1.2v are going to be the EXACT SAME TDP. Provided all the other voltages and settings are the same.

The issue you dont see is how many variables there is between one cpu and another let alone your 3770k (which run hot anyways especially not delided) and a 4690k which runs cool in the first place.

Heres some insight for you, Your waterblock could have been straighter then mine, your IHS could have been straighter then mine. Both those things wil make a bigger difference then going from air to water. I checked my waterblock and my ihs and my waterblock is as convex as it gets on the other hand my IHS is pretty damn flat (and yes i used a straight edge).

I also know so little that i actually used pressure paper (oh no what a noob i must be). And found that when bare die is used the waterblock will put more pressure on the cpu socket then on the die , again i said more pressure not no pressure. Yes im a total noob lol.

Give yourself a hand bud.
    
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