Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 5

post #41 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majentrix View Post

I'm not a "clc zealot", I use an air cooler and would recommend using one over a CLC in all but very specific circumstances. And I didn't mention anything about components or coolants, that was all you buddy.

What I'm getting at is that the OP has a vested interest in seeing CLCs fail.
Then don't post up sounding like one. biggrin.gif

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. AIOs like Swiftech use his coolant, and they are ready to use right out of the box just like CLCs are .. just light-years better quality.

Your initial post was totally one sided against Mayhem. May Mayhem is anti-CLC and maybe there is something to be gained by pointing out their shortcomings, but that does not change the fact what he is saying is the truth.

Personally I don't think Mayhem has anything to gain by standing up and telling it like it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

No doubt CLC coolers have a definite lifespan but to be fair most of the users here at OCN probably plan a completely rebuild more frequently than every 4 years.

I did hear that the H50 died on a PC I built in 2009 (i7-920), it lasted nearly 6 years. I guess OP would be proud to know that the current owner bought a heatsink/fan to replace it.
I think it's a combination of problems .. for advertising hype, un-informed buyers, wannabee-water buyers, etc. When H100 first came out it was a fiasco of mega proportions; leaks, fan software not working, more leaks, users realizing how loud it was, etc. The result of RMAs was a glut of refurbish H100s selling for prices similar to top air. To me it only showed how poorly built / poor quality control and component quality was and still is. I don't know if all the 'refurbs' were RMAs or if many were just corsail unloading them with very short warranty to avoid possible long term costs.

Much of the CLC problem is the fact Asetek was able to patent the concept of pump on block design. Many informed people think Swiftech was using this concept before Asetek applied for the patent of it, but new patent laws give patent to first who applies for patent, not actual first user of design. rolleyes.gif
Edited by doyll - 6/22/16 at 5:12am
post #42 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. AIOs like Swiftech use his coolant, and they are ready to use right out of the box just like CLCs are .. just light-years better quality.

Your initial post was totally one sided against Mayhem. May Mayhem is anti-CLC and maybe there is something to be gained by pointing out their shortcomings, but that does not change the fact what he is saying is the truth.

Personally I don't think Mayhem has anything to gain by standing up and telling it like it is.
I think it's a combination of problems .. for advertising hype, un-informed buyers, wannabee-water buyers, etc. When H100 first came out it was a fiasco of mega proportions; leaks, fan software not working, more leaks, users realizing how loud it was, etc. The result of RMAs was a glut of refurbish H100s selling for prices similar to top air. To me it only showed how poorly built / poor quality control and component quality was and still is. I don't know if all the 'refurbs' were RMAs or if many were just corsail unloading them with very short warranty to avoid possible long term costs.

Much of the CLC problem is the fact Asetek was able to patent the concept of pump on block design. Many informed people think Swiftech was using this concept before Asetek applied for the patent of it, but new patent laws give patent to first who applies for patent, not actual first user of design. rolleyes.gif

I also think that the fact that the fittings for the "tubing" is pretty much plastic and they just dont like to bend for extended periods of time. I personally think they leak way before a pump fails but what do i know i installed my watercooling setup wrong haha.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #43 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Yea i was busting your balls. And yea i offer so little. Check the rep count lol.

A 4690k at 1.2v and a bad lottery 4690k at 1.2v are going to be the EXACT SAME TDP. Provided all the other voltages and settings are the same.

The issue you dont see is how many variables there is between one cpu and another let alone your 3770k (which run hot anyways especially not delided) and a 4690k which runs cool in the first place.

Heres some insight for you, Your waterblock could have been straighter then mine, your IHS could have been straighter then mine. Both those things wil make a bigger difference then going from air to water. I checked my waterblock and my ihs and my waterblock is as convex as it gets on the other hand my IHS is pretty damn flat (and yes i used a straight edge).

I also know so little that i actually used pressure paper (oh no what a noob i must be). And found that when bare die is used the waterblock will put more pressure on the cpu socket then on the die , again i said more pressure not no pressure. Yes im a total noob lol.

Give yourself a hand bud.

LOL CHECK THE REP COUNT?

wow, and youve been a member here since March, BAHAHA.....

yet you have 1,500 posts?? LOL wow, someones trying too hard.... but dang, 51 rep?!?! IMPRESSIVE, so thats only 51 times out of your 1,500 posts that anyone thought it should be deemed important.... You really never have anything relevant to say do you??

and you call that insight? a statement that broad? Ok, so are you talking about going from an Intel stock cooler to a custom loop with 4 D5 pumps and 960mm of radiator surface? or a Cooler Master 212 Evo Air cooler to a Corsair H100i? because both of those scenarios are going from air to water.....

and no dude, nobody called you a noob but yourself, Again, you have yet to say anything relevant to the topic of discussion.

Slow down and take a breather man, your literally having and questions and rebuttals and confirmation with yourself in a single post before even reading what anyone else has to say about it haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Then don't post up sounding like one. biggrin.gif

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't. AIOs like Swiftech use his coolant, and they are ready to use right out of the box just like CLCs are .. just light-years better quality.

Your initial post was totally one sided against Mayhem. May Mayhem is anti-CLC and maybe there is something to be gained by pointing out their shortcomings, but that does not change the fact what he is saying is the truth.

Personally I don't think Mayhem has anything to gain by standing up and telling it like it is.
I think it's a combination of problems .. for advertising hype, un-informed buyers, wannabee-water buyers, etc. When H100 first came out it was a fiasco of mega proportions; leaks, fan software not working, more leaks, users realizing how loud it was, etc. The result of RMAs was a glut of refurbish H100s selling for prices similar to top air. To me it only showed how poorly built / poor quality control and component quality was and still is. I don't know if all the 'refurbs' were RMAs or if many were just corsail unloading them with very short warranty to avoid possible long term costs.

Much of the CLC problem is the fact Asetek was able to patent the concept of pump on block design. Many informed people think Swiftech was using this concept before Asetek applied for the patent of it, but new patent laws give patent to first who applies for patent, not actual first user of design. rolleyes.gif

this is a great post, exactly what ive observed as well for a long time.

It is nice however to see EK sorta expand on the whole "CLC" thing that Swiftech had originally done first a long time before. For me, if I had to choose 1 component with custom loops that I believe is the biggest difference maker vs AIOs, is the pumps.... however im not so sure I feel this way anymore because for so long, DDC and D5 were pretty much the only real options that were consistent among production and manufacturers, but now more pump options have emerged.... and for so long as well, I felt all the radiators offered with AIOs were ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE..... just so friggin thin and far worse than the cheapest OEM radiator out there you can buy.
Edited by Nichismo - 6/22/16 at 5:24am
post #44 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

LOL CHECK THE REP COUNT?

wow, and youve been a member here since March, BAHAHA.....

yet you have 1,500 posts?? LOL wow, someones trying too hard.... but dang, 51 rep?!?! IMPRESSIVE, so thats only 51 times out of your 1,500 posts that anyone thought it should be deemed important.... You really never have anything relevant to say do you??

and you call that insight? a statement that broad? Ok, so are you talking about going from an Intel stock cooler to a custom loop with 4 D5 pumps and 960mm of radiator surface? or a Cooler Master 212 Evo Air cooler to a Corsair H100i? because both of those scenarios are going from air to water.....

and no dude, nobody called you a noob but yourself, Again, you have yet to say anything relevant to the topic of discussion.

Slow down and take a breather man, your literally having and questions and rebuttals and confirmation with yourself in a single post before even reading what anyone else has to say about it haha

+rep for you for not reading the post yourself thumb.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #45 of 366
heres a thread I actually made almost 2 years ago discussing almost an identical topic to this one right now:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1516413/seriously-could-this-really-provide-any-better-cooling-performance-than-a-typical-but-solid-air-cooler/10

granted, 2 years is a long time and drastic progression has taken place with available products on the market, but its still relevant in my opinion.

But clearly, this is something ive felt strongly about for a long time....
post #46 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post


It is nice however to see EK sorta expand on the whole "CLC" thing that Swiftech had originally done first a long time before. For me, if I had to choose 1 component with custom loops that I believe is the biggest difference maker vs AIOs, is the pumps.... however im not so sure I feel this way anymore because for so long, DDC and D5 were pretty much the only real options that were consistent among production and manufacturers, but now more pump options have emerged.... and for so long as well, I felt all the radiators offered with AIOs were ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE..... just so friggin thin and far worse than the cheapest OEM radiator out there you can buy.
I find your reply very hard to read and understand. Best I can do is try.

There is no EK in "CLC" .. nor is there any "CLC" in Swiftech.

"AIOs" use light-years better pumps than "CLCs" do, but are still not as powerful an cannot move as much coolant as big component pumps.
post #47 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I find your reply very hard to read and understand. Best I can do is try.

There is no EK in "CLC" .. nor is there any "CLC" in Swiftech.

"AIOs" use light-years better pumps than "CLCs" do, but are still not as powerful an cannot move as much coolant as big component pumps.

Idk the difference between the DDC 3.1 thats used in the predator and the DDC 3.2 thats used in custom loops.

However that is decent wattage dissipation.

Nominal cooling performance (fans @ 1850rpm):
ΔT=10K: ~425W
ΔT=15K: ~637W
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
R7 1700X asus crosshair 6 Sapphire R9 390 Nitro CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Kingston HyperX 3K Seagate ST2000DM006 EKWB Supremacy Evo EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 - Acetal 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool GPX r9 390 m01 alphacool xt45 240 Alphacool xt45 360 Alphacool D5 PWM 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 LG 29UM68 Corsair Strafe Corsair RM1000 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Thermaltake X5 Corsair M65 Pro RGB Razer Goliathus Speed 
  hide details  
Reply
post #48 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

I find your reply very hard to read and understand. Best I can do is try.

There is no EK in "CLC" .. nor is there any "CLC" in Swiftech.

"AIOs" use light-years better pumps than "CLCs" do, but are still not as powerful an cannot move as much coolant as big component pumps.

ya your right, but the point i was making is that its obvious what Swiftech and EK were trying to emulate and improve on with those products.

its been a long time since I have even really involved myself with this hobby in general, ive only started posting again here in the last couple weeks after about almost 8 months of inactivity.

as far as pumps go, the comparison I was illustrating was the difference in performance between AIO pumps and OEM individual pumps like DDC and D5.
Edited by Nichismo - 6/22/16 at 5:46am
post #49 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

as far as pumps go, the comparison I was illustrating was the difference in performance between AIO pumps and OEM individual pumps like DDC and D5.

I understand what you are saying, but you should be more specific only in that the EK and Swiftech pumps are in an AiO. That said, they are a world away from anything included with a CLC. The Swiftech and EK can get to over 1gpm. Now, we have all seen what happens to performance when flow dips below .5gpm, and the Asetek and CoolIt pumps come in at only around half of that flow rate. Combined with the aluminum rad (using aluminum rather than copper keep profits high and performance low!), this is what necessitates the ridiculous fan speeds needed to produce cooling with these things.

So, you can get a good pump in an AiO (Swiftech or EK), but to date the only CLC with a pump that moves enough water for efficient cooling is the CM Nepton pump, which comes in at .5gpm.

And I love how CLC users think they know more about this subject than someone who designs the best coolants on the market......they will do anything to deny facts to themselves.
post #50 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

you know what I mean.... the point is, its obvious what Swiftech and EK were trying to do with those products.

ive long since been even really involved with this hobby in general, ive only started posting again here in the last couple weeks after about almost 8 months of inactivity.
I'm assuming my reply to you shows you I understand our post??

Swiftech was doing it before or at least at same time a Asetek.

I read your link to OP about CLC, right on target! thumb.gif

Martin did a flow rate test years ago. Don't know if I could find it now. Basically it came down to the fact most good component pumps moved much more coolant than needed, but that these cheap little pumps on CLC blocks were on the ragged edge being just barely able to move enough even at full speed compared to Swiftech or similar pump moving something in the neighborhood of 5+ times minimum needed versus big component pumps moving something 10+ times as much. Obviously flow rate needed is dependent on block and radiator too, but that was basically the gist of it all. @ciarlatano may be able to shed more light on the details.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product.