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AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 6

post #51 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

I understand what you are saying, but you should be more specific only in that the EK and Swiftech pumps are in an AiO. That said, they are a world away from anything included with a CLC. The Swiftech and EK can get to over 1gpm. Now, we have all seen what happens to performance when flow dips below .5gpm, and the Asetek and CoolIt pumps come in at only around half of that flow rate. Combined with the aluminum rad (using aluminum rather than copper keep profits high and performance low!), this is what necessitates the ridiculous fan speeds needed to produce cooling with these things.

So, you can get a good pump in an AiO (Swiftech or EK), but to date the only CLC with a pump that moves enough water for efficient cooling is the CM Nepton pump, which comes in at .5gpm.

And I love how CLC users think they know more about this subject than someone who designs the best coolants on the market......they will do anything to deny facts to themselves.

Thats a very subjective statement lol. I could design the best coolant in the world and not know a thing about computers, physics doesnt relate to computer knowledge but agree to disagree.
    
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post #52 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Thats a very subjective statement lol. I could design the best coolant in the world and not know a thing about computers, physics doesnt relate to computer knowledge but agree to disagree.

Like I said........anything to deny the facts to themselves....... rolleyes.gif
post #53 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Like I said........anything to deny the facts to themselves....... rolleyes.gif

Um i dont use a CLC or AIO and i never have haha. But good try, i use distilled water and MAYHEMS biocide.

- Waits for spontaneous reply-
    
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post #54 of 366

Anyone who was around the watercooling scene a decade or so ago, back when we used automotive coolant in small percentages in our loops (because it looked nice, it was cheap, reduced the effects of galvanic corrosion and stopped algae from growing) knows this.

 

Funny to see all these people defending AIOs as if their lives depended on it... Those of us that have been watercooling for a long time know exactly what glycol gunking does. We've all had inexplicably high temperatures only to tear the CPU block down and find a mess of goo, we've all burnt a pump or two down only to find the inlet filter (we used fish tank pumps back then!) completely clogged and the pump stalled, causing it to burn!

 

...and there is a reason us old guard won't trade a custom loop for a CLC, no matter how convenient or magical we're told they are :) 

   
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post #55 of 366

How short term? My H50 is going on 6 years now and still works just as well as it did when I first got it. Same for the now four year old H80.

 
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post #56 of 366
The H75 I purchased for my R9 290 was probably the single worst product i have every bought, the pump vibrated like a 4000RPM Delta missing half its blades and just the build quality was appalling for the $130AUD i paid for it, all the fittings and plugs felt extremely fragile and not to mention how Asetek decided to use the softest metal possible to build a screw thread out of. In the end I couldn't stand it and swapped the reference cooler back onto my 290, never felt so relieved with my computer.
The only place these CLC's are going is in the bin.
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post #57 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Um i dont use a CLC or AIO and i never have haha. But good try, i use distilled water and MAYHEMS biocide.

- Waits for spontaneous reply-

Believe it or not, the way you cool your system really isn't going to change my opinion of just how incredibly myopic and inaccurate your posts in this thread have been. I am done with the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Anyone who was around the watercooling scene a decade or so ago, back when we used automotive coolant in small percentages in our loops (because it looked nice, it was cheap, reduced the effects of galvanic corrosion and stopped algae from growing) knows this.

Funny to see all these people defending AIOs as if their lives depended on it... Those of us that have been watercooling for a long time know exactly what glycol gunking does. We've all had inexplicably high temperatures only to tear the CPU block down and find a mess of goo, we've all burnt a pump or two down only to find the inlet filter (we used fish tank pumps back then!) completely clogged and the pump stalled, causing it to burn!

...and there is a reason us old guard won't trade a custom loop for a CLC, no matter how convenient or magical we're told they are smile.gif  

Well said, and actually addressing the topic of the thread.....which got wholly lost in people defending CLCs as if their lives depended on it.
post #58 of 366

100% user error here, but my Antec 620 was missing something as basic as reverse polarity protection... Yeah, they have a polar connector, but I was messing with it on my bench, got the leads wrong, and poof it went.

 

That was really disappointing (mostly from my trade's perspective) that they decided to cheap out on a diode.

   
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post #59 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

100% user error here, but my Antec 620 was missing something as basic as reverse polarity protection... Yeah, they have a polar connector, but I was messing with it on my bench, got the leads wrong, and poof it went.

That was really disappointing (mostly from my trade's perspective) that they decided to cheap out on a diode.

The Asetek pumps are even more fun when they dead short while connected to the MB header......the puff of blue smoke is a nice effect if you have LEDs tongue.gif . I have actually had two mfg samples do that to me. One a very early model (same gen as your 620), the other a very recent current gen.
post #60 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

OP supplies CLC's coolants .....
Our Ethylene Glycol is safe thank you smile.gif http://mayhems.net/sds/xt1/250mll/xt1_clear_250ml.pdf - http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US8206607
Were not bashing glycols (how ever i worded it wrong above) some sealed AIOs have silicates that should not be used (some not all car engine coolants use them) that causes issues over long periods of time, Check white papers with plenty of information, sealed units should use such products as proven though out the thermal industry in HVAC , Solar power sealed system and maintenance systems. nice little guide for you too read -> http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_010e/0901b8038010e417.pdf?filepath=heattrans/pdfs/noreg/180-01286.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

You said glycols are bad because they "thicken" once they get hot. First of all, this is patently false. They do not thicken. I've heated PG before and the viscosity does not change (or at least it doesn't get thicker). PG can break down into acids once it hits about 120°C (which is hotter than you'll see in a loop), but this can be prevented by using inhibitors.
Quote:
PG isn't the best fluid is it less thermal ineffective than EG how ever there are alternative such a glycerol / glycerin.

PG has worse thermal conductivity compared to EG and I acknowledged that above. However, it's not by much. The difference is very minimal if you look at the numbers (from sources like Dow Chemical who produce metric tons of the stuff in their factories). The best liquid conductor is pure H20, but it cannot be used by itself for obvious reasons (at least in most loops).

You mention glycerol as a possible alternative, but that would be VERY bad. Glycerol has a very high viscosity (I have a gallon of Glycerol sitting here on my shelf). The stuff is like syrup. PG, on the other hand, has a viscosity close to that of water. Not to mention glycerol's thermal conductivity is worse than PG and EG's.
Quote:
You have have other much better fluids than PG. Check out many white white papers showing the issues of PG in closed loop systems mind you these are also contradictory white papers so the argument is pretty much void. We provide PG, EG, VG and all manner of glycerol and glycerin products though out the industry, water cooling is just one of them. All coolants need to be refreshed over a period of time unless they have a filter in them. Inhibitors only last so long, biocides only last so long. sealed units cannot be cleansed of particulates nor biomass build up. This is what leads to there eventual fail (depended on heats loads).

It's true that they will only last so long, however it should be a few years at least. Do you think all of these CLC companies would warranty their stuff for 5 years if they thought the failure rate in that time would be high? They are in it to make money just as everyone else.
Quote:
and they are refreshed / changed out unlike sealed all in one units which do not have filters. Why do you think you can change out you radiator fluids in a car.

CLC's are closed and sealed air-tight. There is really nothing to filter. Bio-fouling wont be a problem either.

I am not here to say custom loops are bad. I am only here to correct some of your assertions about CLC's. Considering the cost of CLC's (around a $100), then it would be worth it even if you just got one or two years out of it. The price to performance ratio is much better than that of a custom loop (at least for CPU cooling). Where a custom loop can really help is with GPU cooling.
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