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AIOs Why they should only be considered a short term product. - Page 9

post #81 of 366
Anyway if you've spent five minutes researching WC fluid you know Mayhem's has made high quality products for years and done a lot of research that's been shared with the community. Why shouldn't we take what he says seriously is the better question. All it takes is a a cursory glance through their thread to find this out.

I can't remember the last build log I've read through that doesn't use pastel or one of their dyes. Or a rebranded version.
    
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post #82 of 366
I started out with the h50 back in 2011-12.

Lapped the cooling plate since it inherently had micro fissures in the surface. You could actually see them. I also lapped the 955 BE I purchased BNIB with the h50. Added a hacked up fan body between a pair of Yate Loon fans and my CPU ran some pretty decent temps but not low enough to OC the 955 any higher than 4.1Ghz and stability was shoddy at best.




But that was just to understand how water cooling worked and after 6mos or so I jumped into the water feet first, rather than head first. Not for the sake of longevity but because I needed to get my board under water. It was one of the NB issue boards. I performed the standoff mod and got slightly better NB temps but not enough to suit me.



This all said, I can understand why AIO/CLCs' have their appeal to people uninitiated to watercooling. I just put a new(old) h60 on my mother's system to cool my 1055. It's quiet, doesn't have the ribbed tubing and I set it up based on my experience with my custom loop, so that it would be easier for her to maintain. I removed the Hyper 212+ that she inherited from me. She lives in a rural area on a dirt road so the dirt just got sucked into the 212 and started to harden within the vanes of the cooler. Almost like the mud daubers got in her case and tried building a nest in the CPU cooler.

I plan to upgrade her to a Predator 240 later but this was a cheap alternative. I plan to put my Brother's system under the Predator 360. Neither are water coolers. Or weren't til I put the h60 in her system. At least with the Predator, I can fill as necessary when the temps start to climb and it can't be solved with a thorough brushing of the Radiator. I run Pull to make maintenance easy in my system and that's how I will set theirs up as well. Although with Koolance speed studs to speed up the maintenance process. thumb.gif

So while I am not a huge fan of CLCs, I can understand why some people need to be steered in that direction. My 212 had a P/P setup on it and maintaining that in a seriously dusty area(even with case filters) is a ridiculous chore that can be minimized. biggrin.gif

I will never go back to air, nor will I ever go back to CLCs' in my systems.

I don't run dyes. Just straight distilled with no additives. Not judging anyone who runs dye. Not judging any dye manufacturers. I just like simplicity and no amount of color in my build is going to make my temps run lower. cool.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
Edited by Ceadderman - 6/22/16 at 10:10pm
 
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post #83 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

The cost of "Custom" loops is being vastly overstated here.

If we compare CLC's to a CPU only loop the difference is not nearly a factor of 10 as has been said in this thread. I can throw together a D5/res, 360 rad and a block with some fittings for under 300 dollars and that's about as overboard as you can go for CPU only.

 

My entire loop costed me just over 200€.

 

The key is to not get caught in marketing, bling and g4mz0r crap. Buy what gets the job done and is priced right, you'll save an arseload of money.

 

Do you really need fancy anodized, laser engraved compression fittings at $10 a pop when a 50c barb does the exact same job?

 

I thought so.

   
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post #84 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Again, clearly you lack reading skills. As ive stated, and as you could clearly see if you checked the rig, i dont own an "x2", nor do i own or use a clc/aio. Ive used them for testing thats about it.
Your logic fails you again my friend! wink.gif

I was pointing out that Mayhems is arguing that CLCs coolant gunks up over time and with extreme heat. Your example of 1-2 year old GPUs with CLCs isn't really relevant. So, I then suggested you at least make an argument about an older CLC, like a CoolIt Eco Pro or Asetek v.1 on a Athlon x2 or whatever, which would be a relevant example that responds to Mayhem's claims because of the use over a long period of time, and then referred to my own personal experiences with these models on that chipset (all of the ones I own died).

So, yeah, a dictionary is what is needed here... rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Its def safe to assume CLCs have a pretty high failure rate. And again we don't know why we don't build them, RMA them, or rebuild them. My guess is? It has something to do with the actual bearing in the pump rather then coolant. Could it be possible that the coolant is destroying the bearing (for example)? Its a possibility but unless someone has taken one apart and has DEFINITIVE PROOF that the coolant is what ruined the CLC its a totally baseless thread.

If someone has a busted CLC in Europe id love to have it sent to me ill check it out, hell ill even pay for shipping. thumb.gif
You should try google - there are countless examples of build-up from the 2000s when we were still using car radiators, and plenty of examples of gunk building up in CLC pumps, but don't take my word it - take the word of real life people and their experiences, or, you know, the white papers that science has produced. thumb.gif
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post #85 of 366
Mayhem's i love your stuff, i have your clear X1 in my current beast, but i just don't agree for the general consumer.

AIO has done an amazing job grabbing a large section of the market that would never touch a custom built system. You just AREN'T going to convert people into a niche hobby like you can sell them on a well marketed system pre-built with AIO. Even laptops are entering the realm of intercooling. this shows both success and demand in the market.

i have like 5 generations of AIO, starting from like 5-6 years ago, & they all still work WELL to this day, & served many years @ 24/7 life.

@Mayhem

I did a proper flush of my system & added clear X1 about 3 years ago. All I've done is top it off every now & then, but i can tell things are still damn near perfect based on the color of the water in all my crystal clear tubes & res smile.gif

this however isn't possible for most PC users. Most users would never touch a custom loop, but might have the money for a well marketed supercooled computer. This is where your H110i or w/e comes into play. Just for the love of god, change the fans.

then you have the poor guys that take the old advice from people that haven't taken the time to up their game, & they corrupt their own systems from ignorance. Or you know, spend 10K on the system then cheap on the tubes & coolant.

You have a lab. Give us some evidence. There's horror stories for every product known to man in this industry, it is technology after all. I had my very first Corsair AIO start leaking, but it was literally the first wave of the first gen blah blah... the rest have all been beasts for the cost / perf / time ratio stuff.

one last thought - there's always a common trend with AIO. It's time to RMA/replace it if it starts getting noisy.
Edited by skupples - 6/22/16 at 6:08pm
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post #86 of 366
Well if a leak occurs in a CLC system, we have heard how manufactures help rectify the whole system. I.e leaked on a gpu
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post #87 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

The cost of "Custom" loops is being vastly overstated here.


If we compare CLC's to a CPU only loop the difference is not nearly a factor of 10 as has been said in this thread. I can throw together a D5/res, 360 rad and a block with some fittings for under 300 dollars and that's about as overboard as you can go for CPU only.

My entire loop costed me just over 200€.

The key is to not get caught in marketing, bling and g4mz0r crap. Buy what gets the job done and is priced right, you'll save an arseload of money.

Do you really need fancy anodized, laser engraved compression fittings at $10 a pop when a 50c barb does the exact same job?

I thought so.

Actually...

If you plan on avoiding Plasticizer altogether and simply have to have clear tubing, yes you kinda do need those fancy anodized compression fittings for hardline. Sure you can get pushfits but I like not having to worry about a tube popping out at me if my pump puts too much pressure in the line.

I chose to go hardline to avoid the Plasticizer monkey business altogether. Hardline doesn't have Pthalates in it. thumb.gif

Also, if memory serves I paid substantially less than $10 a fitting because I purchased in packs of 6. Although my Chainguns cost me about $7 each in the 4 pack, my Economies cost between $32 and $10 for a pack depending upon when I purchased them. So honestly they cost less than purchasing BP Barbs. cool.gif

Also Barbs do not cost .50c apiece. Not unless you're buying those cheapace acrylic PrimoChill barbs that are the likliest point of failure in your loop. No thanks, I will pay good money to have quality fittings in my loops. tongue.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
Edited by Ceadderman - 6/22/16 at 9:56pm
 
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post #88 of 366
[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

My entire loop costed me just over 200€.

The key is to not get caught in marketing, bling and g4mz0r crap. Buy what gets the job done and is priced right, you'll save an arseload of money.

Do you really need fancy anodized, laser engraved compression fittings at $10 a pop when a 50c barb does the exact same job?

I thought so.

/facepalm

Who "needs" an awesome Ferrari or Lamborghini when a Ford Focus can get you from A to B just as well??

see your logic?

I got into this hobby (<--probably a term you should familiarize yourself with) due to overclocking and gaming, but now, almost all my attention and interest has been shifted towards case mods, building, plumbing, craftsmanship, etc. and when working on any computers, by far the most time I spend is in the garage at my workbench with sandpaper, my dremel and drill, scraps of acrylic and aluminum... im always overwhelmed with ideas!!

I absolutely love planning and engineering a beautiful and highly functional machine, and truly maximizing both of those aspects in a build without compromise is extremely fulfilling, whether its for your own dream rig or for someone else .......and just that glee that comes with an empty case and components serving as a canvas is far more enriched with opportunity and velleity than simply assembling a typical rig to be quick with all the latest hardware....
Edited by Nichismo - 6/22/16 at 10:24pm
post #89 of 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

The cost of "Custom" loops is being vastly overstated here.

If we compare CLC's to a CPU only loop the difference is not nearly a factor of 10 as has been said in this thread. I can throw together a D5/res, 360 rad and a block with some fittings for under 300 dollars and that's about as overboard as you can go for CPU only.

Not that I was in danger of buying a CLC anytime soon anyway but I'll file this one under good advice. Not going to put my CPU at risk with any of them. I'll stick a big fat Noctua on my motherboard before I trust Asetek of all people to provide proper build quality for a product that runs water through my computer system. Yuck
You are vastly overstating what has been said about the cost of a loop here.

We have a couple of posters who have grossly exaggerated the cost, but we also have several others who have pointed out it can be done for as little $200.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichismo View Post

/facepalm

Who "needs" an awesome Ferrari or Lamborghini when a Ford Focus can get you from A to B just as well??

see your logic?
.[/quote]
Who owns and drives your 'awesome' $300,000+ Ferrari and Lamborghini rather than sub 40,000 cars in their daily lives?

See your logic?

@Mayhem, you say heat causes the glycol mixture to thicken, but is it possible this thickening coolant problem is not causing of the pumps failure, but the pump failure is the cause of the glycol mixture getting hotter and thickening?

While there are a few identity ten tea challenged members loud mouths posting all kinds of identity ten tea challenged and grossly exaggerated unfounded claims here, these 'fanboys are the very people we need to educate .. even though many are too locked into their fanaticism to see or understand the truth. I know it's hard to do, but we have to try and ignore them .. at least part of the time. Trying to talk logic to them is like trying to tell a hurricane it need to stop destroying things. Neither listen or understand.biggrin.gif
post #90 of 366
I guess I will try once again to bring some logic to the topic.

Nothing wrong with Asetek CLCs.

Will they last forever? Hades no.

They will break down eventually. Some water coolers have even modded their own CLCs and added a Res to the loop, so they could drain and refill them.

MOST however do not.

These are the people I would advise to save $15 a month for however long it takes to purchase their replacement.

Something not often touched on is simple scientific fact. That evaporation happens even to CLC systems.

Corsair warranties your equipment should their AIO products leak and wreck your investment. No custom loop manufacturers do that, to the best of my limited knowledge.

Now, on the topic of Fanboism. Everyone has their 2cents.gif and experience in both camps. I think it's not too much to ask that we all play nice. Nobody needs to get bent out of joint over opinions over facts in my humble opinion.

I just happen to have experience in both camps and am only posting in this thread to add reasonable discourse to the topic.

Let's all have fun and leave the smarminess at the door please. smile.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Crosshair IV Formula Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
Corsair Dominator G. Skill Ripjaws X G. Skill x2 HITACHI 1TB Deskstars 1TB RAID0 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
ASUS DRW-24B1ST  Swiftech 6950/6870 GPU Heatsink Swiftech 6950/6870 GPU Heatsink Monsoon 1/2"x5/8" PETG White Hardline tubing. 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Monsoon Economy Hardline fittings EK Dual DDC V2 top Swiftech Pump DDC-1T (2) Liquid Fusion V Double helix Reservoir 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Yate Loon 120x20 (D12SM-12C) Medium Speed Silen... EK Supreme HF Classified EK Thermosphere GPU Block EK Thermosphere GPU Block 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64 bit Ultimate OEM Asus VH222H Black HDMI Widescreen Logitech the OCZ went buhbye adios. Don't know ... Corsair CMPSU HX 850w Modular 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
HAF 932 Logitech g9x COOLER MASTER Weapon of Choice: M4 Duramesh Pad Logitech X-240 2.1 speakers 
OtherOther
Sunbeam Rheosmart 3 Creative X-Fi 
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