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Coolant question - can I use this car coolant? - Page 6

post #51 of 117
Thread Starter 
by the way, aren't all PC coolant pre-mixes like EK's are essentially PEG with distilled water? Isn't the only difference from car coolant is that they dilute it much more than one would use in cars?
As previously mentioned in 10:1 ratio of water:car coolant? so for every 1 litre, using 100ml of this car coolant would still be a risk?
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post #52 of 117
Pretty much. In hot climates you are supposed to only use 10-20% in a car BTW. The AF gimps the cooling capacity of the water. 50/50 is "safe", but not as effective in hot climates as 10/90 or 20/80.

50/50 works in cars because radiators are usually quite oversized.
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post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil80 View Post

According to this page and I quote:
So I screwed due to the fact I have nickel plated GPU blocks :/ can't even use biocide that is Copper Sulfate?

Well, maybe.. I don't have experience with nickel plated blocks.. now I have another reason to strengthen my continuance of avoiding nickel plated blocks like the plague.
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post #54 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

There is nothing "brutal" about PEG/PPG antifreeze. They are designed to operate in rubber/plastic/copper/iron/aluminum systems from the get go.

thank you, for that intelligent insight +1 to rep
post #55 of 117
Thread Starter 
I'm reading this post:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1025745/why-not-car-coolant/70#post_13730633

So PPG, I have no idea where to get it from where I live. But PEG yes. I wonder, this guy states that he uses dye as well. Wouldn't the PEG break the dye?
Who sells non-pigment dye? Most AF are already coloured.
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post #56 of 117
OOPS. My bad, PEG is relatively non-toxic not used in automotive cases AFAIK, PG is non toxic. Ethylene Glycol OTOH is the toxic one used in some antifreeze.

Experiment with some dyes in test samples of your coolant mixture. See what happens. Find one that works for you.

LOL, you can get pure PG from vape suppliers. thumb.gif
Edited by KarathKasun - 6/20/16 at 8:08am
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post #57 of 117
Don't use any coolant with Ethylene Glycol in it. Not because it is corrosive but because it will kill you if you ingest it. Indeed, this is why back in the 80's most anti-freeze makers switched from EG to PG (Propylene Glycol). They did it primarily to protect pets and small children. Nowadays almost all anti-freeze you buy at Auto-Zone is PG based and totally non-toxic.

PG is a close chemical cousin to EG, but it is completely harmless to the human body. PG is used in tons of household products (including food). I inhale about 20 mL of PG per day because it is what is used in e-cigarettes. I have a gallon of PG sitting here on a shelf that I use to mix my own e-cig liquid. (If I ever get into custom loops, I will have a second use for my PG). PG has the consistency (viscosity) of water and a low freezing point (though not as low as EG). However, freezing points are useless for our purposes unless you have your rig sitting outside in Alaska.

PG also has an advantage that it is a natural anti-microbial agent. Back in the 1940's it was pumped as an aerosol into hospitals as a disinfectant. Though, I don't have data or studies on hand to reference, I would surmise that PG by itself would be good enough to kill or thwart the growth of algae, fungi, or bacteria in your loop. Especially if you flush your loop and refill once in a while.

I said I use USP grade PG for my e-cigs, but in the case of water cooling you probably don't want USP. What you want is an INHIBITED PG. That is a PG that has had inhibitors added to it to stop it from corroding metals. Once PG heats up to about 120°C, it can break down into acids which will corrode your block or any metals in your loop it comes into contact with. Inhibitors stop this. I know of one place online that sells inhibited PG by the gallon (or much larger containers if you need them).

As far as cooling performance, pure H20 is the best thermal conductor out of any liquid. So I would suggest 50% distilled water and 50% inhibited PG. Don't listen to these people that have all of these wacky solutions and chemicals they want you to buy. I am 99% sure that companies like Corsair are putting 50% water and 50% PG in their CLC's and those CLC's are warrantied for 5 years. So, go figure.

If you want to read more on the subject, I suggest this excellent .pdf from Dow Chemical (they have been making these chemicals many decades). They discuss the pros and cons of EG, PG, and pure water for cooling solutions.

Oh, and by the way, anti-freeze that is colored pink simply means it is PG based (usually something like 50:50 PG/Water). So if you buy some off-the-shelf anti-freeze you are going to pay a lot more than if you just bought inhibited PG yourself and mix it with water. A gallon of inhibited PG is about $25.
Edited by thiussat - 6/21/16 at 6:19pm
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post #58 of 117
Or. Just saying. just don't drink it( e.g. ).... even pg. I just would not drink it. Then it won't kill you

Could you? Sure.
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post #59 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post

Don't use any coolant with Ethylene Glycol in it. Not because it is corrosive but because it will kill you if you ingest it. Indeed, this is why back in the 80's most anti-freeze makers switched from EG to PG (Propylene Glycol). They did it primarily to protect pets and small children. Nowadays almost all anti-freeze you buy at Auto-Zone is PG based and totally non-toxic.

PG is a close chemical cousin to EG, but it is completely harmless to the human body. PG is used in tons of household products (including food). I inhale about 20 mL of PG per day because it is what is used in e-cigarettes. I have a gallon of PG sitting here on a shelf that I use to mix my own e-cig liquid. (If I ever get into custom loops, I will have a second use for my PG). PG has the consistency (viscosity) of water and a low freezing point (though not as low as EG). However, freezing points are useless for our purposes unless you have your rig sitting outside in Alaska.

PG also has an advantage that it is a natural anti-microbial agent. Back in the 1940's it was pumped as an aerosol into hospitals as a disinfectant. Though, I don't have data or studies on hand to reference, I would surmise that PG by itself would be good enough to kill or thwart the growth of algae, fungi, or bacteria in your loop. Especially if you flush your loop and refill once in a while.

I said I use USP grade PG for my e-cigs, but in the case of water cooling you probably don't want USP. What you want is an INHIBITED PG. That is a PG that has had inhibitors added to it to stop it from corroding metals. Once PG heats up to about 120°C, it can break down into acids which will corrode your block or any metals in your loop it comes into contact with. Inhibitors stop this. I know of one place online that sells inhibited PG by the gallon (or much larger containers if you need them).

As far as cooling performance, pure H20 is the best thermal conductor out of any liquid. So I would suggest 50% distilled water and 50% inhibited PG. Don't listen to these people that have all of these wacky solutions and chemicals they want you to buy. I am 99% sure that companies like Corsair are putting 50% water and 50% PG in their CLC's and those CLC's are warrantied for 5 years. So, go figure.

If you want to read more on the subject, I suggest this excellent .pdf from Dow Chemical (they have been making these chemicals many decades). They discuss the pros and cons of EG, PG, and pure water for cooling solutions.

Of course it will kill me. But why would I ingest it to begin with?
Additionally, I cannot find coolant which is not PEG
I opt for using Nulon brand which has blue colour which fits my needs. I think of using 90% DW and 10% coolant in my loop.
I live in Australia. We don't have many options like in the US. Most stores don't even say if it's PG or EG based.
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post #60 of 117
A lot of misleading statements in this thread regarding ethelyne glycol auto based coolants.

Here are some facts:

Are they generally safe for PC water cooling use - Yes

Are they safe for use with Acrylic - Yes

Are they safe to drink - NO... rolleyes.gif

You hear people bang on about viscocity issues affecting flow rates excessively etc - Have these people actually used these coolants correctly in a loop? - I guess not as the viscocity problem is always blown way out of proportion simply due to the fact that we don't use ethelyne glycol at 100% strength. We use it at way lower ratios with the rest being made up of distilled water.

You also hear mentioned that glycol based coolants are poor at thermal transfer as compared to distilled water. In fact if people actually look at the data they will find that ethylene glycol is not exactly that much worse when used at the ratios that we typically use for our loops. For example - at an extremely strong 25% pure EG mix - this coolant is 92% as good as pure water. In the mixes we use for our loops, the actual pure EG content would be less than 5% so the heat transfer loss as compared to water would be in the 1 to 3% range overall - Does anyone really think that this will affect their loop temps in any practical way - I don't think so.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html


Some actual benefits:

Lubricant - Glycol based coolant will actually benefit seals and pumps in that it is actually a better lubricant for these components as compared to plain distilled water.

Superior corrosion protection as the corrosion protective chemicals actually coat the surface of the metals and form a protective layer.

Superior long term corrosion protection - maintenance intervals for our loops are greatly extended if using a glycol based auto coolant over straight distilled. No need to flush every 6 months or even every year....!

BTW - people seem to forget that distilled water is no longer distilled once it is poured into a loop. The water will absorb ions from various impurities in the loop and within a short space of time (days) the water will freely allow ions to travel through solution. As soon as this occurs - corrosion can start to take hold.

There are a lot more drawbacks in using additives such as copper sulphate based solutions or silver coils etc especially with nickel plated products.

A lot more people have corrosion issues when using plain distilled or distilled with additives such as silver coils etc Vs people running auto based coolants. In fact if you try and search for people having corrosion issues with auto based glycol coolants you will be hard pressed to find anyone that has.
Edited by Costas - 6/30/16 at 3:16am
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Corsair 900D
(12 items)
 
Déjà vu
(16 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7-6700K ASUS Maximus VIII Formula EVGA 980Ti Classified EVGA 980Ti Classified 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair CMD32GX4M4B3200C16 Samsung 512GB 950 Pro M2 Samsung 1TB 850 Pro Custom 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 ASUS PG278Q Corsair K70 RGB Corsair AX1500i 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Caselabs SMA8 Razer Deathadder 2013 On-Board Aquacomputer Aquaero 6XT 
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