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[HNN/Softpedia] New Intel CPUs Have NSA Exploitable Secret Hidden Backdoor - Page 11

post #101 of 139
These enterprise remote management systems that allow to wake up computers through Lan, manage data and even delete it if the computer gets stolen are, by definition, hardware backdoors, there are no two ways about it.

They tout them as a convenience feature and even a security one, but the fact of the matter is that these chips allow for remote control of a PC through a parallel channel outside of a user's control, it's that simple. Now whether some companies and people want to use it is what should be discussed. And that is why mechanical switches to turn this off should always be provided. Software switches at the BIOS or OS level are useless, they do whatever the programmer told them to do, they can be tampered with and then there's the possibility for the (un)intentional bug. A mechanical switch that physically severs the connection is an entirely different thing. Tampering with that would require personalized "customization" at those "customization centres" that they have, you can't mass spy on everybody with a system like this in place.

Figuring out what the signing key for the firmware is, on the other hand - and they most probably have already because they have moles in every major tech company, allows for mass spying and that is the problem that should raise red flags.

Combine: parallel system outside of the control of the BIOS and OS that can read CPU state and memory state + communicate with the LAN controller + compromised storage firmware that does what it wants instead of what you tell it to + compromised routers that let the former traffic through without you knowing about it and you've got the perfect system. The only way to know if something is amiss is tapping into the Ethernet cable directly with an open source router (hardware and software) and even then there's the possibility that the community that built it is infiltrated by a mole and thus the chip that you get from the factory isn't what's in the blueprint.

In a way it's a parallel with smartphones' baseband processor, something that reportedly has a lot of vulnerabilities but that regular users can't touch or fix.



Edit: Remember those Amazon things that have a microphone that are always listening? Other companies such as Google and Apple are also interested in that creepy market.

The movie wasn't all that good, but we can't say that we weren't warned about the general state of things today:



Power can corrupt anybody. Don't forget that.
Edited by tpi2007 - 6/20/16 at 4:23pm
 
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post #102 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattifnatten View Post

AFAIK without the ME functioning properly, the system won't even post. Here's a good read smile.gif

Nice read, thanks smile.gif
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post #103 of 139
I'm surprised it took as long for this to pop up here.
post #104 of 139
You know what is kind of sad, a lot of the source materials for a lot of these "articles" are kind of outdated.....

Here is my view on ME: It's exactly what it is called, a management engine. It's there to facilitate system management from a basic basic level, and adding more control to ME offers more consistency. People are saying it's for spying, well the NSA doesn't need ME to spy on you, they could just ask MS or your ISP to send over all your information. What ME does offer is a consistent way for all Intel machines to be controlled and run, it offers consistency in a black box which hasn't yet been cracked. While everything is eventually cracked, Intel has done a decent job of using secrecy and obscurity (and Intel isn't the only company that uses those two tools) to keep people from getting inside. In terms of consistency, if you didn't have ME then you would have whatever broken implementation your motherboard vendor decides to implement. The reason you can't turn it off is because Intel has moved a lot of basic functionality into ME over the years to make platform development easier on it's partners, so much so that the system wont operate without it. Intel could move some of that functionality back out, but depending on how you view ME this could be a good thing or a bad thing. I honestly don't care, but it's not like AMD doesn't use the same method. Also FYI, if you haven't already figured it out, the internet is basically a public space, the wild west, and if you want privacy, don't use the internet or at least don't connect any sensitive device to it. Everything is a double edged sword; take net neutrality, sure making the internet a utility has it's benefits, but you think it will make it harder or easier for the government to get the data they need?
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post #105 of 139
Since when did OCN turn into P&N debate? rolleyes.gif

If the gubmint wants to track you, they will track you. If you are like millions of normal people, go about your day and don't sweat it.
     
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post #106 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

If double think helps you sleep better at night then so be it.

its not double think to disagree with the idea that every major tech corporation is involved in a massive data collection conspiracy. While i dont deny data is being collected (it is proven it is), there is no real reason to believe that they all are, and Intel for this example has no real reason to participate unless they want to, which i dont see why theyd want to dedicate man power to something that financially isn't profitable and the government cant force them to do and if they tried to Intel has enough funds to tell the US government to eat a fat one.

M$py, Facebook, MySpace, Google, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Canonical and Red Hat (most likely), WD and Seagate all cooperate with the NSA and you say you disagree with massive data collection.

 

Double think is knowing something to be the truth yet refuse to accept it as such because it either interferes with your image of a perfect world (the propaganda you've been fed) or out of fear. What you do is exactly double think.

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post #107 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baasha View Post

Since when did OCN turn into P&N debate? rolleyes.gif

If the gubmint wants to track you, they will track you. If you are like millions of normal people, go about your day and don't sweat it.

:doh:

 

Nobody will speak up for you because you won't speak for others. Martin Niemoller penned it beautifully.

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post #108 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

M$py, Facebook, MySpace, Google, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Canonical and Red Hat (most likely), WD and Seagate all cooperate with the NSA and you say you disagree with massive data collection.

Double think is knowing something to be the truth yet refuse to accept it as such because it either interferes with your image of a perfect world (the propaganda you've been fed) or out of fear. What you do is exactly double think.

IDK where you get this idea of what my perfect world is, but until there is even a little concrete evidence to support IME (or any other mythic hardware back door) being used in this way I will continue to doubt. Requiring there to be some sort of proof instead of going "oh because x y or z is true or proven means unicorns exist" isn't double think. Double think is when evidence or information has a proven base and you continue to refute information known to be true. I'm not going to continue to derail this thread with this anymore as this is verging on a straw man argument (bringing up the actions of any other company is irrelevant to IME or any other hardware) and you're making assumptions and assertions without base as to my ideas or view and simply telling me I'm wrong for requiring evidence to prove any aligation before crying wolf. Simple fact is there is NO PROOF of IME (or any supposed other hardware back door) being used in this fashion, and your argument boils down to "horses exist so unicorns must also". It has been proven that Microsoft, at&t, google, facebook, have all in some fashion or another provided information, and there's no doubt the NSA collects it. If any tangible proof arrives I will adjust to knew information, but I won't cook facts to suit theories simply on the base of wanting to believe my idea.
Edited by Echoa - 6/20/16 at 9:05pm
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post #109 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

M$py, Facebook, MySpace, Google, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Canonical and Red Hat (most likely), WD and Seagate all cooperate with the NSA and you say you disagree with massive data collection.

Double think is knowing something to be the truth yet refuse to accept it as such because it either interferes with your image of a perfect world (the propaganda you've been fed) or out of fear. What you do is exactly double think.

IDK where you get this idea of what my perfect world is, but until there is even a little concrete evidence to support IME (or any other mythic hardware back door) being used in this way I will continue to doubt. Requiring there to be some sort of proof instead of going "oh because x y or z is true or proven means unicorns exist" isn't double think. Double think is when evidence or information has a proven base and you continue to refute information known to be true. I'm not going to continue to derail this thread with this anymore as this is verging on a straw man argument (bringing up the actions of any other company is irrelevant to IME or any other hardware) and you're making assumptions and assertions without base as to my ideas or view and simply telling me I'm wrong for requiring evidence to prove any aligation before crying wolf. Simple fact is there is NO PROOF of IME (or any supposed other hardware back door) being used in this fashion, and your argument boils down to "horses exist so unicorns must also". It has been proven that Microsoft, at&t, google, facebook, have all in some fashion or another provided information, and there's no doubt the NSA collects it. If any tangible proof arrives I will adjust to knew information, but I won't cook facts to suit theories simply on the base of wanting to believe my idea.

I am sorry for my abrasive style of writing, I didn't mean to personally attack you when I said you, it was a generalised you and not aimed at you specifically.

 

Until Snowden made mass spying public I would have agreed with you that we need proof but just as guns are made to be used this is obviously made to be abused. There is absolutely no reason for this to exist, it serves no purpose other than to give a hardware backdoor to our PC's.

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post #110 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Anyway, this is all hypothetical discussion. Poor NSA may be completely innocent and only now they 're reading about this. And probably thinking "hmmm, what a brilliant idea! Why didn't we think about backdooring the chip by ourselves! Yeah, we should pursue this!". rolleyes.gif


- Carl? Hey Carl, come see this!
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