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Trying to help Dad with his second rig. Could you look and give some imput other than "Its a dead end platform sell everything and start over." - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
I'm listening LeadbyFaith21, Undervolter and the rest.
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Like the others said, if you want a decent overclock to play, without too much heat, go to 4.4-4.5. At that clock, even the single core performance of the FX won't be too bad.

See here the 4.4 9370, is 12% slower than i5-2500k in Cinebench singlethreaded:

http://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i5_2500k-5-vs-amd_fx_9370-227

OK, it's a Sandybridge, not the latest model, but lots of people still run Sandybridge even at stock and play just fine. Plus, if more new games will run on more cores than the usual 2-4, your dad will be OK for quite some time.

Doesn't look too shabby here either:

http://www.game-debate.com/cpu/index.php?pid=1876&pid2=630&compare=fx-9370-vs-core-i5-2500k-3-3ghz

Sandy Bridge is a 2011 CPU. (To be fair, Vishera is a 2012 CPU).

It's literally 4 generations old at this point, and while the incremental gains haven't been much, they do add up.

This means Skylake should be quite a bit faster than a Sandy Bridge in gaming and much faster than Vishera, i.e. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/697?vs=1543 You can see Skylake is twice as fast as Vishera in most benchmarks and has almost double single-thread IPC in Cinebench. Gaming, generally a Skylake i3 gets more fps than a FX 8 core because again, single thread.

So, I would urge the OP to start seriously considering Intel and not get too excited over Zen, I can say that (if my opinion matters to you) I have absolutely zero confidence in Zen although I want it to be a success. If the rumors are true and the desktop chips have a high core count (8) and SMT, so we get an 8 core 16 thread chip, then most likely the IPC will be low and it will get less fps in games than a 4 core i5. This would be a repeat of the same strategy/approach that Bulldozer tried and failed at, i.e. more cores at lower performance. Personally, I'm not holding my breath, although I could be wrong. There's other factors to consider in a gaming CPU too, like the speed of the cache, the speed of the memory controller and so forth. In my testing my DDR3 runs nearly twice as fast on my i7 than it did on my FX-8350. The L1 cache is over 5 times faster. The L3 cache is significantly faster and not just tacked on and useless.

Anyway, I hope this helps add something.
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by neurotix View Post

Sandy Bridge is a 2011 CPU. (To be fair, Vishera is a 2012 CPU).

It's literally 4 generations old at this point, and while the incremental gains haven't been much, they do add up.

This means Skylake should be quite a bit faster than a Sandy Bridge in gaming and much faster than Vishera, i.e. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/697?vs=1543 You can see Skylake is twice as fast as Vishera in most benchmarks and has almost double single-thread IPC in Cinebench. Gaming, generally a Skylake i3 gets more fps than a FX 8 core because again, single thread.

So, I would urge the OP to start seriously considering Intel and not get too excited over Zen, I can say that (if my opinion matters to you) I have absolutely zero confidence in Zen although I want it to be a success. If the rumors are true and the desktop chips have a high core count (8) and SMT, so we get an 8 core 16 thread chip, then most likely the IPC will be low and it will get less fps in games than a 4 core i5. This would be a repeat of the same strategy/approach that Bulldozer tried and failed at, i.e. more cores at lower performance. Personally, I'm not holding my breath, although I could be wrong. There's other factors to consider in a gaming CPU too, like the speed of the cache, the speed of the memory controller and so forth. In my testing my DDR3 runs nearly twice as fast on my i7 than it did on my FX-8350. The L1 cache is over 5 times faster. The L3 cache is significantly faster and not just tacked on and useless.

Anyway, I hope this helps add something.


I will explain the reasoning behind my post. If you read the title and the original post, you will see that the points the OP makes are:

- He already has available one of the best overclocking AM3+ motherboards and an 8320, that currently runs at stock.
- The GPU is R7 270 (not what you 'd call an ideal GPU for 1080p gaming).
- He wants to hear something else than "start over (and get Intel).
- He's on a budget.

My immediate thought, was "put the 8320 on the Sabertooth instead of that 4+1 Gigabyte and overclock. Use any available money for bettter GPU". The reference to 2500K was to show that if someone still plays rather happily with Sandybridge, he should be able to do so too in an FX @ 4.4. Assuming a game where an Intel Sandy keeps barely 60 fps, a 10% deficit for the FX would mean 54 fps. Let's round it down to 50 fps. Big deal... It's still perfectly playable.

I doubt his father passes his day running benchmarks or is affected by benchmarkitis like most of OCN members, so as long as he can play, i don't think he will be thinking "ooooh, what if i had Skylake!".


Here are also some recent opinions of i5 users (i5 4670k )

http://www.overclock.net/t/1318995/official-fx-8320-fx-8350-vishera-owners-club/61090#post_25309444


Former FX user went Skylake and now back to FX:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1604261/purposed-build-fx-83xx-and-rx-480/10#post_25307648


So, at the end, his dad can play and the only thing he should possibly buy, is a new GPU. I think the solution fits the requirements of the OP.

As for Zen, i also don't expect Zen to run on most current and past games better than a Skylake, because once more, the IPC will be inferior and more cores are of no help if the program doesn't use them. Zen will be great for people who do video encoding like me. But, it will still provide pleny of power to play with ease and if the price is right, that's what AMD was always doing. People who can't live or enjoy something unless they know that they have "the best", will still buy Intel. But you don't always need the best to get the job done. Zen will shine more in future games that will become more heavy and multithreaded. At some point it will beat quad Skylakes. But for the immediate future, it will lag a bit behind, i think.

If at some point in the future, an overclock of 4.4-4.5 isn't enough, nothing forbids his dad to get a whole new system and by then it will be better than any current Skylake. Why waste these AMD parts, when all FX CPUs are unlocked and thus he can get free upgrade without spending any new money on CPU, mobo and RAM (which he 'd need for Skylake). Basically, with the Sabertooth, he can get EASILY a 1Ghz overlock over the stock clock of the 8320, so why not try that before wasting money?
Edited by Undervolter - 7/7/16 at 4:46am
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FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
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post #24 of 30
with that cooler you should be running it at least 4.6ghz if not 4.8, my 120 keeps mine at 4.4 no issues at all and can do 4.6 just fine if i didn't mind the max fan speeds.

i have the 2g r9 380, but for 1080 it is not quite enough. Am planning to upgrade to an aib rx 480. not that it couldnt handle it if it was a 4g, but the 480 will have a lot smoother frame rates. I like to play at 60Hz 1080p.

only other thing i can think to say would be i would have recommended faster ram on that board, maybe a 2133MHz kit even if it was just 8g total. i have 2400MHz cl9 in mine but unless im benching i keep it at 2040MHz though it does 2133 stable if i changed some of the other OC settings, and can run at the 2400 for benchmarks. 1600 is a good and safe kit, but that new board can handle much faster. At the least he always has room to upgrade if he really wants to maximize performance later on, i bought my current kit on this site for $50 used.

or another idea if the 480 isn't an option would be to drop the cost on the board a bit and get a 390 instead of the 380? only if the price is reasonable considering its = to the 480 now.
the board i have was a bit of a pain to lean but if you put some time into it 4.6/4.8 should be do able still and would save some money.
Edited by jaredismee - 7/7/16 at 4:43pm
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post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Alright folks. i want to reiterate that I am appreciating all the love Im getting from everyone. None of your information is being wasted at all! I understand the issues between Viseras aging vs Intels current gaming rig dominace, for lack of a better description. I cut my first tooth upgrading my son's intel board and CPU. But after a lot of consideration and reading and budgetary issues I have become somewhat of an AMD fan. The main thing is, I am currently working on my dad's upgrade and he has amd stuff. He is also on a tighter budget and his gaming is nacent at the moment. He may take off and purchase a new rig eventually or find himself a nice older lady to spark his interest down in S. Florida, who knows. So I dont, rather me then the other siblings dont want to gamble on the latest and greatest and then find he just went off to Costa Rica with some nice lady whose mind is into something else...lol

His current gaming is soft from my reading of his Steam account, nothing major. he just downloaded Total War Warhammer and is complaining about it already. His main thing appears to be World of Warships, Tanks and Planes and the 2 XCom games. From the screen captures he sent me he is getting around 47 to mid 50's FPS. It looks pretty good tome me andI'm just learning. My son heree in Jacks has the same game, though he plays less and he is getting about the same FPS. Both are runing stock. My sons has a Q9400 CPU on his intel board Dad has the FX 8320 on his board. So I think the upgrades we currently have on hand AFAIK will do him quite well for his gaming and surfing and whatever else he is doing on his PC. Heck he might steal away with my XBONE once he realises how nice, easy and cheaper and compact it is to carry it with him off to Miami!

Having said that, again many thanks and keep the knowledge flowing!
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 
Err Jasred? This site has a store/sellers area?
post #27 of 30
yes it does, but it was by chance that someone said they were selling them on a memory oc'ing competition thread that i found my kit.
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post #28 of 30
Thread Starter 
Just found the area. Oh the Ram you were talking about that needs upping, did you mean the Gskill 32gb 1866 (4x8) I have on hand? Because a friend had offered me $125 for all 4 sticks and i told him they where for my dad's upgrade. If He still wants them maybe I could sell them to him and buy the ones you suggested. Is that a good pice for them IYHO?
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maikalwolf View Post

Just found the area. Oh the Ram you were talking about that needs upping, did you mean the Gskill 32gb 1866 (4x8) I have on hand? Because a friend had offered me $125 for all 4 sticks and i told him they where for my dad's upgrade. If He still wants them maybe I could sell them to him and buy the ones you suggested. Is that a good pice for them IYHO?

1866 is fine for some reason i thought u were on 1600, and if that is less than you paid for the kit i wouldn't sell it. Unless that money could be better spent elsewhere on this build because the 8gb kits is all that is really needed for gaming, or atleast that is the conclusion i have come to and you can get a good 8gb kit with better timings and faster frequencies for a lot less than a 32gb is going to cost you while having better performance. however, the gains from 1866 to 2133 will not be noticeable very noticeable if at all for gaming. however, if that money could be used on a better gpu than the 380 it might be worth doing and getting a $40-50 8g kit like i am saying. would really like someone to confirm the 8g is all that is needed still, but i have yet to run into any issues.

was saying running a 1600MHz kit on that mobo you posted would be a waste imo, but again 1866 is a good number.

it is going to be mainly about your budget and where your money is better off spent. 32g kit is a hell of a lot of memory.

edit: after looking that kit up i would not sell it for 125, just keep it. it is a nice kit with really good timings. just make sure they get set to the number they show and not whatever the mobo puts them at. Also, never split that kit up it has a lot more value with all 4 sticks than it would as 2 separate 16 gig kits.

i feel like i am throwing you offtrack in the wrong direction, now that i realize you have these parts on hand already. I just really wanted to stress that the GPU is going to be the most important part of this build as far as gaming goes.
Edited by jaredismee - 7/7/16 at 6:27pm
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post #30 of 30
Here are some random benches with my FX 8310 @ 4.5 ghz with a 280x
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPR_1sktuLd4o975FMUWqAsCM6JrVEOXB

A RX 480 would be better than a 290 so better still

FX 8350 @ 4.5 + stock 290
http://www.overclock.net/t/1535399/500-intel-vs-amd-same-budget-shootout-8350-4-5ghz-r290-vs-4670k-4-4-ghz-280x

Exact Game Settings on both platforms
Tests done at 1680x1050 22" monitor
No PhysX in any test
GPU at stock clocks
8350 @ 4.5
4670k @ 4.4
Summary of Results as of 1-16-2015






Edited by CravinR1 - 7/7/16 at 9:34pm
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  • Trying to help Dad with his second rig. Could you look and give some imput other than "Its a dead end platform sell everything and start over."
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