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[eurogamer] Mass Effect 3 will be irrelevant for Andromeda - Page 4

post #31 of 64
So Bioware's going to ignore ME3 the same way they ignored the Indoctrination theory involving Shepard. Good times.
post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post


Collectors were known as well.. collectors. People were thinking that Protheans were simply vanished after Reapers. ME2 showed that this doesn't quite true. In fact, Reapers were repurposing the strongest race of the cycle in order to prepare the next. Collectors played a part as a replacement for this role. The reason of building the human reaper was the result of this "pick the strongest one" strategy.
Agreed, but it didn't really change anything. The missions stayed the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

ME1 simply introduced the idea of total extermination, while ME2 opened this one a bit more and introduced "harvest", which Reapers do; ascend advanced organic races and leave primitive ones intact. They were not just crazy sentient machines guys which were killing off the galaxy in cycles as ME1 said. They were picking, selecting races and they were doing this for a reason, which we couldn't find out because ME3 simply ignored that.
Actually, ME3 explained it perfectly, especially with the Leviathan DLC. That people didn't like it is another story... But every reaper is like a collective vessel that stores all the biological information of every species that it harvests. So every reaper that we killed in the war is basically the destruction of information of a whole civilization of beings that were harvested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Cerberus is a terrorist organization for multiple reasons. Shepard is the "Reaper" expert and the main idea of bringing him back is already explained in the first encounter of the Illusive Man. It's unclear whether the fact he had seen Reaper visions in ME1 and can communicate with Thorian creature plays a part in that.
Actually, it's quite clear that it doesn't since they don't mention it once, nor is there any indication of anyone else not being able to see/understand something that Shepard can...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Council ignored humans since the beginning of the game. Why ? Multiple reasons can be given here. Perhaps saying "Oh look up guys, our doom is approaching and we have to do something about it" was a pretty bad idea ? especially for a trader nation such as Asari, which was the leader race of the Council ?
Yeah, the multiple reasons is exactly the problem. If it could be shown rather than speculated, the story would've been better for it. There is no reason for the council to doubt your beliefs yet again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

In ME3, it was said that every race decided to build some special task forces in order to fight against reapers, so Shepard's warning didn't go for nothing.
Maybe, but it has no bearing on improving the story of ME2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Also, in ME2, it was explained that the remains of Sovereign was "harvested" by the Keepers so there was not much to confirm the existence of the Reapers. There were lots of Geth ships and the remains of one sentient ship which were collected and destroyed by Keepers. Ilos AI was gone, no one saw visions but there were hundreds of Geth ships. Of course they blamed the Geth. This, again, could be addressed by the player to the council in second game.

Going back and forth won't change anything much because Shepard is branded as Cerberus operative. Any info coming from him has no importance.
Which is exactly where the story falls on its face. Shepard gives in to Cerberus too soon. Imagine how it would be, if you had to fight your way to freedom from Cerberus at the beginning of the game. After that, you go to the Citadel and say you were kept prisoner by Cerberus. Then the council still neglects everything you have to say, despite colonies disappearing, you recontact TIM and say that you need to find out what's happening, and the council is not helping.
That alone would have made the story a lot better. That whole part is spoon-fed to you by TIM talking, rather than being experienced by the player through narrative and play. And it's spoon-fed in an incomplete manner as well. No one cried when they didn't have the choice to tell TIM to F off. But everyone was crying when they couldn't tell the so-called star-child to F off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Again, we don't know. Perhaps it was thought to be explained in ME3, who knows.
Again, whether it is explained or not in ME3 is irrelevant to the story of ME2 itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Played on easy ?
Finished all three games on highest difficulty setting. I wasn't referring to all the enemies you shoot at... I was referring to the main enemy in the story. It's always the collectors in ME2. In ME1 it was the geth, then Saren, then the reapers. It actually had a plot that progresses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Depends. I think the ignorance of the Council is pretty much a threat.
We're talking about the main plot here. Not side-stories. In ME2, to call contact with the council a side-story is giving it too much credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

If they die, so will you, that's how Shepard can die in the last mission. I don't see the logic here.
That's an argument from the motivational perspective. It does nothing for the plot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

You are about to go to a place which no one has ever returned. Team is basically a team of mercenaries. While I agree it was bit annoying of dealing with the recruitment and personal problems phase game still delivered important chunk of info. They weren't used in ME3, but it doesn't change they were.
Chunk of info is not relevant to the main plot. I outlined that quite well in my previous post. To elaborate on what plot means, it's the main events in a story. ME2 does not have many main events that progress the plot...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

That's because ME3 sucked, not ME2. You can't say ME2 is bad because ME3 ignored everything. ME2 is the prequel not ME3.
ME3 did not ignore everything. ME3 actually advanced the main plot. ME2 did not. Want to see why?
ME1: A reaper was here, more reapers are coming
ME2: Reaper minions were here, more reapers are coming (still in the same place)
ME3: Reapers are here + Reapers (not) defeated.

ME2 should have moved to the arrival of the reapers for the plot to actually advance, so that ME3 can actually focus on defeating the reapers. ME3 had to take the plot task of two chapters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

That being said, i don't see any emotional improvement and deeper RPG elements in ME3. Killing off important and beloved characters then putting a child in front of my face is not something i'd call emotional. It's rather cliché and dumb, considering this is coming from the people who once said "This ain't Hollywood and there are happy endings in this game."

ME3 had no RPG elements in it. It was an RPG game as ME2 was.
I never understood this. How people consider ME2 to be 'more RPG' than ME3 is beyond me. ME2 had no weapon mods, less weapon leveling, smaller skill trees... Not to mention the gameplay of ME3 is a lot deeper than ME2...
Besides, I think the child didn't really work for anyone. But come on. You cannot say that any moment in ME2 had the same impact as the Mordin moment in ME3, or the Grunt moment, Thane... Samara...
They didn't kill off more than they needed to. Well, only if you didn't import your save or if you sucked in ME2, then basically everyone dies. Oh wait, so, your choices do matter...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Your choices in ME1 didn't matter.
They didn't matter in ME2 either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Your choices in ME2 didn't matter.
Can't exactly fault ME3 for this when ME2 didn't do it either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

You did all those quests in ME3 in order to max the fleet but it still didn't matter in the finale.
Result ? Pick your favorite RGB color.
Actually, it mattered based on how many choices you could make at the end of the game, and the details are different. With lower fleet values, everyone gets incinerated for example, while with the whole fleet, only the 'bad guys' get incinerated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

I wouldn't call that RPG.
What is an RPG according to you then...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

ME2 and ME3 suffered the immense popularity or the premise of ME1, they were both casualized in order to reach more people. Stupid dialogue wheel and "no dialogue" option in ME3 was the result of this change.
Actually, it does not have less dialogue than ME1 or ME2. I've played the games a lot, and want to know something? The 'middle' option in conversations is generally the second half of either the paragon or the renegade option. In other words, it's not an additional conversation tree, it's a cut down one. Example (paraphrased) .. ME1 with Nihlus:
Paragon;
Anderson: You need to help Nihlus, understood?
Shepard: Can we trust him sir?
Anderson: Yes we can
Shepard: Understood.

Renegade;
Anderson: You need to help Nihlus, understood?
Shepard: I hate Turians
Anderson: We need all the help we can get.
Shepard: Understood.

Neutral;
Anderson: You need to help Nihlus, understood?
Shepard: Understood.

ME3 version without dialogue options;
Anderson: You need to help Nihlus, understood?
Shepard: I hate Turians
Anderson: We need all the help we can get.
Shepard: Can we trust him sir?
Anderson: Yes we can
Shepard: Understood.

ME1 and ME2 had the illusion of more dialogue. But it did not have more dialogue. ME3 removed some options to allow longer dialogue without breaking the flow of cutscenes and to let the story flow well. Which is exactly why I find the whole 'our choices didn't matter' thing retarded. They tried to resolve as many choices as possible from the prior games, or at least give the illusion. I mean, if you let Wrex live or die in ME1, the consequenecs in ME3 are a LOT bigger than in ME2. So why ME3 is held to a higher standard than M2 is really beyond me. I guess people are blinded by their emotions, making them unable to look at the games for what they really are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

I don't hate ME3 because of last 15 minutes. Sure, this 15 minutes is killing anyway of replaying the entire saga again (because, in your mind you know that your choices won't matter). People hate ME3 because it doesn't belong to Mass Effect universe.
HAHAHA. I disagree passionately. Despite ME2 doing catering to casuals, ME3 gets all the flack. Other than technical issues of ME1, ME2 is the WORST of the three in terms of both plot progression and RPG elements, and worse than ME3 in terms of gameplay, graphics and depth. Has anyone forgotten the 'nuisance' that is mining in ME2?
Edited by NightAntilli - 6/22/16 at 10:12am
post #33 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by qosu View Post

Expectations are still in the dumps for anything Bioware makes, they're still a division of EA after all. Having their IPs milked until the studio becomes an empty husk at which point it will be closed.

The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Studios rise, evolve, advance; and at the apex of their glory they are EAxtinguished.

Oh man, I got a GREAT laugh at that. Well played!!
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post #34 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

Excellent.
Mass Effect 3 should just be retconned, the Reapers won, there is no freakish nonsense glowy kid controlling the cycle of life in this Galaxy, and after the Andromeda series ends and they should send a armada back to the Milky Way to actually beat the Reapers for real this time, using the advantage of knowing the capabilities of your enemy plus an unlimited amount of time to prepare.

That would be pretty neat. They could even start this one off reviewing the events of ME3, and replaying parts of the destroy ending, just as Shepard wakes up from his dream, stuck under some rubble, next to the crash landing site of the Normandy, with a giant Reaper standing over it glaring down making that loud sound. Then instead of witnessing the true end there, another scene could come up saying "x time earlier..." and go with the plot of the plan B to escape to Andromeda, and start it from there.

Thus, ME3 never really happened. And you go off to Andromeda with what looks like a sure win for the Reapers. The original plot stays intact and can be revisited much later on.
Edited by Creator - 6/22/16 at 11:00am
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post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

I'd play that.

Then again, it requires an immense amount of manpower, and industrial backup in order to pull something like this, aka creating Reaper killer armada. Finding an ancient superweapon and/or sentient armada then wake it up and lead it back to milky way or even where Reapers came from makes more sense (in terms of two factors i've listed)

Not gonna lie, knowing that ME3 will be ignore, I think i can play ME saga again, come until ME3, do side quests and DLCs then stop before the end, ignore it completely.

Andromeda Galaxy is a little over twice the size of the Milky Way so with the massive resource advantage, the reapers shouldn't be much of a problem. Also no need to send a fleet, just start prepping for when the two galaxies get close, then with a billion year heads-up, it would be a slaughter.

I'd wager they are going to play on the theory that the evolutionary process is universal, so the Andromeda galaxy will be building up to, already dealing with, or have already dealt with a synthetic menace from one of the first sentient species to evolve there.

My guess is the protagonists will arrive just after the races of the Andromeda polished off their synthetic threat, conveniently leaving a way to retcon the story after ME3 in any way they desire without having to officially retcon the original Mass Effect story.
post #36 of 64
Kind of glad they are ignoring ME3. Out of the three, that one really drop ball on several things, not just only the ending.

Still though, I am going to wait for reviews and actually game and story footage before I even dare touch it. I hope they actually bring the darn RPG elements back. ME3 was snooze and bore on that part.
 
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post #37 of 64
I preordered the digital deluxe edition of ME3... still have yet to play more than five minutes of it... really should, it's just that other games keep sucking me in.
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post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Andromeda Galaxy is a little over twice the size of the Milky Way so with the massive resource advantage, the reapers shouldn't be much of a problem. Also no need to send a fleet, just start prepping for when the two galaxies get close, then with a billion year heads-up, it would be a slaughter.

I'd wager they are going to play on the theory that the evolutionary process is universal, so the Andromeda galaxy will be building up to, already dealing with, or have already dealt with a synthetic menace from one of the first sentient species to evolve there.

My guess is the protagonists will arrive just after the races of the Andromeda polished off their synthetic threat, conveniently leaving a way to retcon the story after ME3 in any way they desire without having to officially retcon the original Mass Effect story.

That is brilliant. If it isn't the plot of the new game, it should be.
post #39 of 64
What I don't get is that FTL travel was made for within the Milky Way AFAIK. Andromeda is millions of lightyears away. So how does anything that happens in ME1-3 matter at all in a galaxy that is basically completely cut off from ours because of the vast distance?

I could be wrong and I probably mixed some facts up but this is just something that concerned me about this game.
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post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

What I don't get is that FTL travel was made for within the Milky Way AFAIK. Andromeda is millions of lightyears away. So how does anything that happens in ME1-3 matter at all in a galaxy that is basically completely cut off from ours because of the vast distance?

I could be wrong and I probably mixed some facts up but this is just something that concerned me about this game.

No you are right, intergalactic travel did not exist in the first three games. Mass relays only linked clusters within the milky way. The story will have to provide an explanation for that.
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