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post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

No it doesn't. You are forgetting the fact the Cerberus is not a homogenous organisation but much like terror cell, of which cells pperate independant from each other. There are no strict hierarchy in Cerberus, each cell can take decisions technically. Lazarus Project was under the control of Lawson she was operating under the TIM directly. Other Cerberus cells even its investors can simply say "Guys... guys ? I think we're a bit off from our objectives, no ?"
This would be true if there was no in-fighting between Cerberus. Remember Jacob? Yeah. That guy that everyone forgets about. In ME3, there are Cerberus refugees that have been discovered by the reaper-influenced Cerberus, and you fight them off... So... There are cells within Cerberus that did not get indoctrinated. This is just the one we know of. It's unknown whether there are more, but it's not inconceivable. Thing is, TIM was creating an army, so, it's not inconceivable either that he was turning multiple cells into reaper pawns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Cerberus' transformation of ME3's Collectors is plain ridicolous in every sense.
We never knew TIM's motivations in ME2, therefore I don't see it as ridiculous. It makes perfect sense compared to the first game. It's ME2 that turned things into haywire regarding Cerberus. First they kill you, then have a terrorist organization revive you. If that doesn't sound like nonsense, I don't know what would. People made up the indoctrination theory for ME3. I'd like to introduce the afterlife theory, where Shepard actually died at the beginning of ME2, and all the rest that happened is Shepard's ghost living in the afterlife, thinking he's still alive, trying to fix what he left behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Not quite true. Collectors are threat because, much like Keepers and Saren in ME1, they are acting as a backdoor of Reapers. They are abducting humans not because for fun, but because they are harvesting them, creating a army by either using them in H.Reaper or turning them into husks. I do agree however, this was not quite underlined in ME2 or you had the impression about what and how Collectors are dangerous because we are dealing with so many side missions. But that doesn't change anything about Collectors nor how they advanced the plot.
I still don't see how this advances the plot. Sure, we know that the Prothean husks are the Collectors, and they're now slaves to the reapers so to speak... But like you said, we already knew that the keepers were something similar. So... Things are the same. They want to do it to humans now. Yeah, reapers are still our enemies. At the ending of ME2 we're in the same place as at the ending of ME1. In fact, if you remove ME2, Cerberus being evil in ME3 makes a whole lot more sense, since ME2 brought in the confusion of Shepard being killed and being revived by Cerberus, making them the 'good' guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

About personal problems of race..

Salarians: Don't help Krogans
Krogans: Help us please for curing the genophage
Asari: Man I cant help you guys out, I wanna protect my city. Then: Help us to save our capital (you couldnt')
Turians: Please can you extract our primarch so we can decide whether we should join you guys ? Then: Please save my son his ships is down.
Humans: We're gonna takh backh Earthhh
Quarians: We want our homeworld baghhh

I'm sorry, I fail to see any connection between these missions and Reapers.
The connection is that you need all the races united to have a chance, and obviously there's racial history and racial conflict there. To unite them, the conflicts must be resolved between them. I re-emphasize, racial history. Obviously the Salarians are afraid that if the Genophage is cured, they Krogans will seek revenge. The Krogans fear extinction, so they want the genophage cured. Makes sense, since after the war, maybe there's no cure left, nor resources to find a cure. Generally the leaders of these races are thinking beyond, forgetting that all of them can be wiped out. The Asari made the same mistake, thinking they could go at it alone. When they realized they couldn't, the losses were already too great. The mission on Thessia was great by the way, making you feel extremely bad and down, without killing anyone... Like you wanted, right..?
Turians, yeah, they are militaristic and are not going to decide on their own that they will join the cause. They have their orders, and since their style has brought them success, they are not suddenly gonna change their ways to the ways of someone else.
The quarians wanting their homeworld back is only natural.
ME2 characters have their personal issues, and it being a so-called suicide mission, they want those resolved. THAT is personal, because it only matters to them. On the scale of races, I can't say it's personal, because they influence each other. Each of the race issues have a long history. The issues of your crew in ME2 are short and were basically made up in ME2 itself, with little connection to ME1. Even Liara and Garrus... They reference when you died, which is ME2 itself, rather referring to ME1 like it should. ME2 is the most disconnected game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Again.. you can not indoctrinate an entire organisation in 3 years, which is operating as sleeper cells. These guys had connections in the Council and in the Human Alliance. If they are indoctrinated, Shepard should've been executed for treason.
Unless TIM was propagating/amplifying the indoctrinations...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

I played RPG games which had tons of personalisation but lacks the story.
I played FPS games which had no personalisation but it was giving you a story.

I don't know which is more important to you but, I prefer a RPG game without weapon mods but with a logical plot which player decisions actually matter.
Both lol. But the story is important to me. For me, the ME2 story already killed my illusions regarding Mass Effect. The immersion of the first game is still unmatched for me, despite the mediocre controls and repetitive side quests. So a good story can keep me playing and even make me believe that game is superior to the rest, even if the gameplay is meh. The reverse however, like ME2, didn't sit well with me. Many gameplay improvements and graphical improvements, but, the feeling is not as powerful as ME3, let alone ME1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

He can live how ? You either kill him or he blows himself off. Sure you have to kill Wrex, and that's exactly what I'm talking about, why I hate ME3 and don't call it RPG. See, you have to kill another character in FIRST game in order to save the other. Why ? Why I can't play like boss, kill and destroy everything on my path and save all of my friends ?
Yeah well, life is not ponies and rainbows, and the best media, be it movies, books etc, are about accepting unwanted and unforeseen consequences, overcoming them and moving on. Sometimes the right choice has unwanted consequences. I think it's a good thing that such a thing can be reflected in a game. This is the problem a lot of people have. They want what they think is the good to always have good consequences and none bad, and that's not how it works in real life, and, I have no problem if this dynamic is reflected in games.
With Wrex alive, it makes sense that Mordin refuses, because Wrex is a good leader and would likely be able to bring the krogan in a proper direction, especially with Eve around. So it's either allowing him to go up the tower to fix what he thinks he should fix, or shooting him to ensure he doesn't... Both tragic, but it makes sense. Wreave on the other hand would certainly seek revenge, and that allows Mordin to say that not curing it is still the better choice. You see, it's all logical. Emotionally that's not what people want, but it makes sense from the perspective of Mordin, having to choose between the fate of his species and the guilt regarding the genophage. That's life, and in fact, if doing everything "right" brings everything just as you want, it would be extremely boring and predictable. This is why ME3 is not for everyone. But gamers have been pampered too much of always being the hero. This is why something like Spec Ops: The Line is also awesome. And by the way, ME3 is about survival of advanced alien races, not individuals. If you do everything right, every single race survives. If you don't multiple races (if not all) die. So I still don't see how ME3 is not rewarding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Because some developer thought that is a good idea to kill some characters in order to give "emotional" experience. I hate that. Let players to decide who lives and dies, let them fail so they lose their buddies or let them win and save their friends. ME2 exactly does that, not ME3.
And ME3 shouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

About Grunt, he couldn't die, he was wearing his plot armor. Guy falls from a cliff and survives, a salarian specialist dies in front of a computer.
I even forgot Legion, thanks for reminding. He was also dying. Speaking of which, the ONLY and ONLY RPG moment in ME3, was ironicaly that part. Game doesn't force you to kill someone.
RPG moment...? Now I'm really curious what you define as an "RPG moment".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Did you do Tali's mission in ME2 ?
Did you do Legion's mission in ME2 ?
What were their outcomes ?

If you have a sort of magical mixture, YOU COULD save Geth AND Quarians BOTH. That's a fantastic result of awarding the player who played the game like a boss. (I mean "boss"; I mean player who completed most of the side missions and actually invested time in the game) No one has to die, both lives happily after (that is if and will ignore the ending)
Apparently I played it like a boss then, lol. I agree that it was good, but, not all missions have to be like that... If ALL missions had something bad, I agree, but you just mentioned one that was rewarding. There should be a balance. Not everything turning out like the player wants is a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

She was ? Sure, asking your help... again. I also saved her in ME1, what did she bring new ? Did we get Rachnii swarm in London ? Nope. We had 200 War assets and they could be as well gotten if I had saved Krogan squads. She's irrelevant.
Considering they likely don't have a fleet, I don't see how you would see them in battle. But even if that's true, she's one of the things that's irrelevant. But ME2 made a lot of things irrelevant as well. The cypher, the Thorian, the Council, the Alliance, The Citadel...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

I gave him Collector's data (ME2), did all of his side missions (ME2), kept the collectors base and handed over him (ME2). Maybe I wanted to become Cerberus operative, why would he need a loser like that guy with swords ? (He was so forgettable character that I even forgot his name)
Kai Leng was in the books. If you would have read them, you'd remember him. He was obviously going to show up in ME3, considering his reputation and actions. He must have really let you hate him after Thessia, if that's how you feel about him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Why can't I become the bad guy and rule out the Council with Cerberus and Udina and go on with it ? Details...
Would you have liked that if it would have been a guaranteed loss against the reapers for the galaxy...? Because that would've been the direction it would go towards. Cerberus is too focused on humans only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

2 things about Cerberus:

First, they didn't have to go bad, since Shepard was indirectly repairing their reputation in ME2. True that they're xenophobes, but the real threat here is the Reapers not aliens. It was still possible to achieve, Humanity as the dominant race and fight alongside aliens. ME2 was this after all. One should not forget that they are the ones who built Normandy V2, which shows that Cerberus clearly have the upper hand in terms of technology. Considering they were pretty much everywhere in ME3, they could pack pretty heavy punch in terms of military power.
That Cerberus built the Normandy SR2 does not mean they have superior technology. It shows that at that time they were more willing to put more resources into certain things. Does Cerberus even have Dreadnoughts...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Second, even if they go bad, player should've had a chance to pick a side, because of all the reasons above.
You really are a Cerberus fan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

Imagine here for a second; Shepard decides to help Cerberus, Control is a bonus ending for Cerberus path, Shepard assumes direct control of Reapers and enslaves the entire galaxy, leading human as dominant race.

What a terrible yet awesome yet dark ending it could've been.
It would have indeed been quite the ending. But the Cerberus path would likely not have allowed Shepard to reach London. The whole theme is that a single group cannot defeat the reapers. This was evident since the first game, since a single reaper almost overwhelmed the whole Alliance fleet. Unless Cerberus was working with the Alliance and the other races, which they wouldn't do with TIM as a leader, the reapers would win. Or Shepard had to take over TIM's position, by killing him, in which case it wouldn't really be Cerberus anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

He could've cried over Virmire MIA, or Thane or Reaper indoctrination.. But a kid, stuck in a vent ? C'mon...
I've never seen Shepard actually cry, just feeling down, as in, PTSD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

That's what they've said. Sure it'd be physically impossible at some point. But making somethings irrelevant is plain absurd:

Saved Council in ME1 = Irrelevant (already irrelevant in ME2)
Killed Council in ME1 -> Human led council = Alien led council in ME2 = Irrelevant
Saved Destiny Ascension = Irrelevant, since it can be replaced with more human fleet in war assets if player chooses to kill council.
Collector's base = Irrelevant
Rachnii = Irrelevant
Human Reaper = Irrelevant
Side missions over characters in ME3 = Irrelevant (It DID matter in ME2)
So you're admitting that most things were already made irrelevant in ME2... Why does ME3 receive all the flack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

What happened to dark energy thing ? Oh right.... It met "artistic integrity" and EA's moneygrubbing. ME3 makes previous games irrelevant. You could still play ME3 as if it was a new game and without knowing what has actually happened before. It works just fine, you don't have to play previous games in order to get something plus for the final war.
Haha. The dark energy was related to the ending first, and the ending leaked, thus they changed it. Don't know if that's for better or worse.
You can also play ME2 as a new game. For new players, a lot more people die in ME3. In fact, races are guaranteed to die in ME3. But it's not a bad thing really, to allow new players to play it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarez View Post

That's why there are "war assets". No racchnii ? Sure, take your 200 assets. Saved rachnii ? Aw.. that's bad, now I'm gonna take 200 assets back from you by killing krogan squads of yours. That's why your decisions don't matter, since either way they are awarding. That's why they are killing bunch of characters, because they don't matter to new player who has no idea who Mordin was. Hiding plot failures and logical nonsence behind killing characters is easier than thinking and creating a good plot. They didn't need that. That's why you also has "no RPG" option in ME3, which allows every decisions is given by the game not by the player.
Regarding Mordin, that's quite a funny statement, considering Wreave would allow Mordin to live, and chances are that new players are gonna get Wreave instead of Wrex...


Also... ME2 is WAY WAY WAY MORE casualized than ME3... It really baffles me how people don't see that.
The ending is what it is. It's not as bad as people make it out to be, and what exactly where you expecting? All three games had a single ending with small variations. ME1 allowed you to choose between Anderson and Udina, ME2 allowed you to choose to give the base to TIM or not, and ME3 allowed you choose between three (or four) fates of the universe. ME1 had minimal side choices, like saving the destiny ascension. ME2 was choosing tasks for your crew, which would determine who would die or not. In ME3, your series of choices determined who survives and which species survives. The hatred for the ME3 ending is blown out of proportion.

ME3 was clearly under time constraints by EA, which limited what BioWare could do, and the game suffered for it. It was quite clear that they were planning for you to allocate certain war assets against reapers, similar to ME2, but on an army scale rather than individual person scale.
But expecting extensive resolution for EVERYTHING from the first and second game is not realistic. ME3 does not have to respect all the player choices.... It's war. Things are gonna go sideways. ME3 is still just a game, although it is trying to reflect the unfortunate happenings of real life. And if you hold the three games to the same standard, rather than expecting the impossible, ME3 is objectively the best of the three.

The orders are like this;

Gameplay mechanics depth: ME3 > ME1 > ME2
Gameplay mechanics usability: ME3 > ME2 > ME1
Customization depth: ME1 > ME3 > ME2
Customization usability: ME3 > ME2 > ME1
Graphics : ME3 > ME2 > ME1
Main plot: ME1 > ME3 > ME2
Side quests: ME2 > ME3 > ME1
DLC: ME3 > ME2 > ME1
Characters: ME2 > ME3 > ME1
Character banter: ME3 > ME2 > ME1


Total scores (1st place = 3 points, 2nd place = 2 points, 3rd place = 1 point):
ME1: 15
ME2: 20
ME3: 27
Edited by NightAntilli - 6/24/16 at 4:30pm
post #52 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Remember that the reapers can mass jump from far outside the Milky Way galaxy into pretty much the heart of the galaxy. Showing they have massive distance capability, but also can initiate mass relay type jumps themselves without having to be near a relay, only needing to end at one seemingly. Even when not using relays, remember that the reapers were sitting WAY outside the galaxy from the cinematic we saw, and it took them something like 6 months or so to go from way outside there to invading earth at normal sublight speeds? They are obviously very very fast when they need to be and can travel around far beyond galaxies. This would lead me to think that the Reapers would not simply contain themselves to just the Milky Way, but also other nearby galaxies. Perhaps this is what they do during those 50,000 years between cycles of the Milky Way
So much wrong in this post.
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake87 View Post

So much wrong in this post.

lol. Then explain it rather than making a dumb comment with nothing to back it up rolleyes.gif
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post #54 of 64
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Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

lol. Then explain it rather than making a dumb comment with nothing to back it up rolleyes.gif
1. The reapers can not “mass jump” anywhere. They never once did this in the game.
2. They use the mass relays the same way everyone else does, i.e. they link from one end or relay to the next.
3. They used their FTL drives which are much faster than the rest of the galaxy's to travel into Batarian space, then used the relay from there to connect to the rest of the galaxy.
4. They don't need to discharge their FTL drives like everyone else, however they are often seen covered in a red lightning that suggests they use another method of drive discharge.
5. They only thing accurate is that we don't know what the reapers are doing in between cycles. It is theorized by Vigil that they simply enter a power saving mode and remain dormant. This is only a theory, as nobody has witnessed the reapers in between cycles, except for Soverign, who remains behind to randomly check the state of the galaxy.

rolleyes.gif
post #55 of 64
well... considering they self declare they are eternal, the most logical thing is invading the whole universe, not just one galaxy.
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post #56 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake87 View Post

1. The reapers can not “mass jump” anywhere. They never once did this in the game.
2. They use the mass relays the same way everyone else does, i.e. they link from one end or relay to the next.
3. They used their FTL drives which are much faster than the rest of the galaxy's to travel into Batarian space, then used the relay from there to connect to the rest of the galaxy.
4. They don't need to discharge their FTL drives like everyone else, however they are often seen covered in a red lightning that suggests they use another method of drive discharge.
5. They only thing accurate is that we don't know what the reapers are doing in between cycles. It is theorized by Vigil that they simply enter a power saving mode and remain dormant. This is only a theory, as nobody has witnessed the reapers in between cycles, except for Soverign, who remains behind to randomly check the state of the galaxy.

rolleyes.gif

You forgot how the cycles actually start. Reapers sit way outside the galaxy and jump from there directly to the citadel. No relay at the start of the jump from what we can see, only a relay at the end point. The citadel was explained to be sort of a special beacon relay with far larger receive range of ships than any other relay, that is why reapers cannot simply jump from wherever they are to any relay they want, only to the citadel from wherever they are. This was explained in ME1.
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post #57 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

You forgot how the cycles actually start. Reapers sit way outside the galaxy and jump from there directly to the citadel. No relay at the start of the jump from what we can see, only a relay at the end point. The citadel was explained to be sort of a special beacon relay with far larger receive range of ships than any other relay, that is why reapers cannot simply jump from wherever they are to any relay they want, only to the citadel from wherever they are. This was explained in ME1.
Wrong again. The citadel is an enormous mass relay, as explained in Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3. There is a point in dark space that links only to the citadel, and is called a mass relay in all of the games. The whole concept of the mass relay system is to link from one end, be it primary or secondary, to another. It doesn't just "mass jump" you to some point in space. The codex explains all of this.

And the cycles begin when a signal is sent, from Sovereign to the citadel that the keepers react to. They perform the necessary functions to open the relay, from which the other end is in dark space. This didn't work because the protheans corrupted the signal and the keepers ignored it, thus we have Mass Effect 1.
Edited by Drake87 - 6/26/16 at 3:35pm
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet4NO1 View Post

I find it strange that people are still so upset by the ending of ME3. The rest of the game was pretty darn good. Sure, the ending sucked, so? It just seems silly to me to be so bent out of shape over it. Especially now after so much time has passed.

I mainly think it is about the time invested in the game, and the immersion into the story line, and when you get all edged up for the end, all really, like a thriller books you have read and just can't wait to read the conclusion, you end up with a wth.gif face, saying "wait wth just happened??" headscratch.gif "that is the end? are you kidding me!?".

The ending was so extraordinary bad compared to the rest of the whole series up until that time, that people just went bonkers.
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post #59 of 64
Are we there yet?? biggrin.gif
 
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post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by qosu View Post

Expectations are still in the dumps for anything Bioware makes, they're still a division of EA after all. Having their IPs milked until the studio becomes an empty husk at which point it will be closed.

The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. Studios rise, evolve, advance; and at the apex of their glory they are EAxtinguished.

LOL - I just finished that Chapter where you finally meet Saren's Reaper ship. I'm currently replaying the ME series again, starting with the first.

Anyway I'm one who actually thinks they should let the choices from the previous games guide Andromeda's gameplay. BUT... I can see it the other way too... clean slate.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [eurogamer] Mass Effect 3 will be irrelevant for Andromeda