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post #121 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeofblade View Post

And they are taking months and months after launch to send product to people who purchased the same day after sales went live. Whether they had supply issues or not, they were not prepared. And HTC Vive can put a headset of good quality on your doorstep in 72 hours right now. That qualifies as a disaster.

Please, denying the launch was a disaster is just embarrassing.

I am not saying they handled it well. I am saying they sold a large number of Rifts. More than they were expecting.

Ask any Product Launch Manager what the definition of success is and they will tell you - 'when we had a waiting list'.
post #122 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wihglah View Post

I am not saying they handled it well. I am saying they sold a large number of Rifts. More than they were expecting.

Ask any Product Launch Manager what the definition of success is and they will tell you - 'when we had a waiting list'.

How do their product managers feel about frustrated customers leaving said waiting list for their competitor? They happen to be LOSING sales because of the supply problem.

How do their customers feel about getting shafted because the retail channel is getting Rifts before the pre-orders did? That's how I got mine, and it I didn't I'd be super pissed

What you're doing is spin at it's worst: denialism. Their prospective customers are frustrated and many of them are defecting. They are losing the stalwarts that supported them through four prototypes. Something has to change.

Oculus is not so popular that they're immune from their mistakes.
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post #123 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeofblade View Post

How do their product managers feel about frustrated customers leaving said waiting list for their competitor? They happen to be LOSING sales because of the supply problem.

How do their customers feel about getting shafted because the retail channel is getting Rifts before the pre-orders did? That's how I got mine, and it I didn't I'd be super pissed

What you're doing is spin at it's worst: denialism. Their prospective customers are frustrated and many of them are defecting. They are losing the stalwarts that supported them through four prototypes. Something has to change.

Oculus is not so popular that they're immune from their mistakes.



1) The prevailing evidence is they couldn't give a hoot.
2) waited 6 months for mine. I was pissed. Still spending loads in the OH Summer Sale.
3) I suspect your definition of "lots" and Oculus' are not the same.
4) Maybe not, but I bet their annual finance declaration is better than HTCs.
post #124 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeofblade View Post

So that's your response to someone who's trying to act reasonably in the face of a mob and not intuit malevolent intent in otherwise neutral companies? To call me a shill?

If you want to be MY customer, then roll your tanker truck up to my yard and tell me if you want to fill it with 97 Octane or E85.

You were sharing reasonable mindset, but in the particulars of this industry, company, industry and the implications for those things. What you said is not really a balanced helpful thing.

It puts too much beneficial weight to the aggressive actions by Facebook.

Stick to gas and talks in the park, tech moves kinda fast and is intricate in nature.

My comments have nothing to do with shipping /launch issues. But what we are forming industry best practices when we wany (consumer best practices).

Facebook should he put on notice, we should stop unreasonable general bashing, but triple the noise on that which is pertinent in the mid long term to the consumers and industry as a whole.

We do not want more Facebook, comcast style running of this medium. It is also about being able to reasonably trust a company and its or releases (oh wait we have been shown) look up Instagram that Facebook's plans are very different to the intent that people were shown before the launch, no dialogue back, it is part of the marketing strategy and these loud (too loud forums) provide some volume to these issues.

Again, yes ideally we are all chill, this is not vive vs rift, this is Facebook vs most of the industry and all of us consumers (from the standpoint of what we want and are saying we want and we're told things were going), it is an unreasonable and unrelenting offender who is taking their industry terrible practices into a new space.

I tried saying it in a few different ways , hope it is understood

***edit*** And nothing personal, I do agree with your opinions on discussion in general!
Edited by supermi - 6/23/16 at 1:17pm
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post #125 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeofblade View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

So exclusives ARE bad for the industry but Oculus still deserves our support so they feel good and change their ways? All this complaining is only going to push them into... not changing?

I understand your point, some of the critisism of Oculus is over the top, but exclusives, timed or not, are bad. It is especially bad in this case because this isn't not porting it to another platform, this is doing extra work to make sure it will not run on a competitors decice.

My point is that the criticism is SO over the top that it's poisoning everything about Oculus on the Internet. If the house burns down, there won't be a market left to recover.

Personally, I expect Oculus to change course any day now, but truth be told, I don't know if they can make enough money selling the content on other headsets and still justify selling the headset at cost/for a loss. Their original plans might be the only way their analysis shows they would make any money. If they change course and say "Okay, we will do things YOUR way, but we have to charge $100 more per headset", I doubt they will make anyone happy...

I really don't want to weigh in on whether exclusives are bad or good for the industry. I believe Oculus is funding games that might not otherwise see the light of day. I think games getting made is a VERY good thing. I'm not falling victim to the cynicism that says they AREN'T actually funding games and are just buying off developers because I still don't see sufficient evidence of that.

Here's a new twist on a very old line of reasoning: I think if you want to play a game and can't, that sucks. So, to remedy that, Valve should release the Tracked Controllers by themselves. They are monopolizing the motion controller market and locking Oculus users out of Tracked Controller exclusive games.

You're reaction to that statement should indicate whether or not you are part of the anti-Oculus mob or simply behaving like a rational consumer.

 

The game was finished and about to be released without it being locked to either VR headset, Spybook come along, buy the developers off and you see no evidence of it? :doh:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wihglah View Post

Two things that your guys aren't taking into account

1) Vive does not = Valve.


Valve doesn't care what HMD you have, so long as you buy games on SteamVR.


2) Oculus does not = HTC.
Oculus does not = Valve
Oculus = Valve + HTC.

Oculus has no business model if they don't sell games AND HMDs.
The best way to sell games is to NOT GIVE THEM AWAY FOR FREE!
The best way to sell HMDs is to make the content better than the competition., Well duh........

Oculus Home is a Unique Selling Point for Rift. USPs drive marketing campaigns. If they let Vives in, they give up a significant reason for buying a Rift.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeofblade View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

A consumer defending oculus makes me question that person's integrity, it's proven companies sometimes hire people to praise them anonymously. Under no circumstances does it make sense for an actual consumer to get behind exclusive content. Exclusive content only benefit the people making $ off these deals, and hurts everyone else.

Okay, put down the paranoia and the conspiracy theories and walk safely back to reality. There's not a boogieman hiding behind every pro-Oculus post. There ARE reasonable people posting in defense of Oculus who think everyone else is being a slobbering mob.

All I'm saying is I believe the intent behind these business decisions was NOT to clamp down on the market. Keep in mind that most of these true exclusives are 100% Oculus funded from start to finish, like the shortform story content and Lucky's Tale. The rest are timed exclusives. And if you actually look at the list of exclusive content, there is a scant handful, many of which should not evoke such an out-of-proportion reaction. Whining about timed exclusives just makes complainers look impatient and twitchy. If you want to play games, why don't you go play all the wonderful content that Vive invested in...

But, no, I'm not going to debate against that locking down games is bad.
Quote:
"But @edgeofblade, didn't you read the title of the thread."

Yes, and did you actually listen to what he's saying or did you just accept the headline as what already agrees with your ill-informed opinion? He's talking about tailoring content to his hardware. You have to inject all this other malarkey about Oculus being anti-consumer to arrive at the majority of vitrolic garbage posted here.

Or maybe it's even worse. Do you not believe ANYTHING Luckey or Oculus or Facebook or @edgeofblade says? That's not healthy skepticism. That's cynicism.

There is but one thing destroying VR right now. Vapid cynicism masquerading as righteous indignation.

Did Oculus make mistakes? Yes, they did, if only by looking at the results of blocking Revive and not springing forward to support the Vive on OH immediately. Yes, they botched the launch by not stockpiling more product and launching a few months later.

But the Internet has the tendency to turn on it's own revolutionaries and stick them in the guillotine, too. Everyone's an activist and everyone wants to be in the limelight leading the troops and freeing the nation of gamers, and if a few heads roll in support of the cause, then who cares as long as I get what I want...

People love to take simple mistakes and turn them into flaming damnnation. In case you haven't noticed, the more you tear down Oculus for their mistakes and contribute to "letting them burn", the less reason they have to fix their mistakes and open up the content to Vive owners.

 

Despite it having been explained several times in this thread already you two are either refusing to understand it or just can't grasp the problem that Spybook have created, so I will explain for the last time.

 

Hardware manufacturers don't get a cut of software being sold so Spybook decided to change that, valid points because it doesn't affect you.

 

Other hardware manufacturers decide to wade in and we get the following timed exclusives:

CoD - Asus motherboards

Max Payne - MSI video cards

Fallout - Creative sound cards

Dark Souls - Logitech keyboard and mouse

Tekken - Razr gamepad

Gran Turismo - Microsoft mouse

Mass Effect - Intel iGPU

Mafia 3 - Nvidia video cards

Watch Dogs - WD hard disks

 

Most of these will also all be released on consoles so AMD buy off the developers and they all become AMD CPU and GPU exclusives for a 'year'. Doesn't affect me, I have both AMD CPU and video card. Anti competitive practice? Who cares, it doesn't affect me.

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post #126 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post



Despite it having been explained several times in this thread already you two are either refusing to understand it or just can't grasp the problem that Spybook have created, so I will explain for the last time.

Hardware manufacturers don't get a cut of software being sold so Spybook decided to change that, valid points because it doesn't affect you.

Other hardware manufacturers decide to wade in and we get the following timed exclusives:
CoD - Asus motherboards
Max Payne - MSI video cards
Fallout - Creative sound cards
Dark Souls - Logitech keyboard and mouse
Tekken - Razr gamepad
Gran Turismo - Microsoft mouse
Mass Effect - Intel iGPU
Mafia 3 - Nvidia video cards
Watch Dogs - WD hard disks

Most of these will also all be released on consoles so AMD buy off the developers and they all become AMD CPU and GPU exclusives for a 'year'. Doesn't affect me, I have both AMD CPU and video card. Anti competitive practice? Who cares, it doesn't affect me.

Hey, i know you're trying, but it's a lost cause to them, they're not gonna see it for what it is, software being exclusive to peripherals.

I was suddenly reminded of this when I was playing Pool Nation, all of a sudden the image froze, then went black. it went off.

My PC somehow turned itself off, I blame Windows Update. Point is, now the Vive (and the Rift) is now useless, their tether to power from the PC platform now cutoff, and in turn, any software you were using at the time.

So, the software should be PC, not exclusive to the HMD, because, ohhh what if my hypothetical Rift broke, and I have a backup Vive? but no, the Rift exclusives don't work, despite the fact that both Vive and Rift are both glorified monitors strapped to a head, and the Rift is the only one blocking it with no technical reason for it other than Facebook not having to compete with Valve by cutting up a portion of the PC market to keep to themselves with no competition.

That's why they're doing exclusives on a HMD peripheral, so they can exist in their own pocket market with no competition to fend off and with Rift user's games being tied to the headset, they have to give up all games they bought on Oculus home if they want another headset that's not Oculus.
     
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post #127 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post



Despite it having been explained several times in this thread already you two are either refusing to understand it or just can't grasp the problem that Spybook have created, so I will explain for the last time.

Hardware manufacturers don't get a cut of software being sold so Spybook decided to change that, valid points because it doesn't affect you.

Other hardware manufacturers decide to wade in and we get the following timed exclusives:
CoD - Asus motherboards
Max Payne - MSI video cards
Fallout - Creative sound cards
Dark Souls - Logitech keyboard and mouse
Tekken - Razr gamepad
Gran Turismo - Microsoft mouse
Mass Effect - Intel iGPU
Mafia 3 - Nvidia video cards
Watch Dogs - WD hard disks

Most of these will also all be released on consoles so AMD buy off the developers and they all become AMD CPU and GPU exclusives for a 'year'. Doesn't affect me, I have both AMD CPU and video card. Anti competitive practice? Who cares, it doesn't affect me.

Hey, i know you're trying, but it's a lost cause to them, they're not gonna see it for what it is, software being exclusive to peripherals.

I was suddenly reminded of this when I was playing Pool Nation, all of a sudden the image froze, then went black. it went off.

My PC somehow turned itself off, I blame Windows Update. Point is, now the Vive (and the Rift) is now useless, their tether to power from the PC platform now cutoff, and in turn, any software you were using at the time.

So, the software should be PC, not exclusive to the HMD, because, ohhh what if my hypothetical Rift broke, and I have a backup Vive? but no, the Rift exclusives don't work, despite the fact that both Vive and Rift are both glorified monitors strapped to a head, and the Rift is the only one blocking it with no technical reason for it other than Facebook not having to compete with Valve by cutting up a portion of the PC market to keep to themselves with no competition.

That's why they're doing exclusives on a HMD peripheral, so they can exist in their own pocket market with no competition to fend off and with Rift user's games being tied to the headset, they have to give up all games they bought on Oculus home if they want another headset that's not Oculus.

It's obvious they have some misplaced loyalty to a peripheral and are desperate to ignore the truth, despite knowing how wrong they are (the definition of double think).

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post #128 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

they have to give up all games they bought on Oculus home if they want another headset that's not Oculus.

This is why, Facebook really wants an Apple like ecosystem where once you are inside you have to give up everything you bought so far to leave.

Apple at least makes a collection of supporting complete devices, all Oculus has is the display, tracking, and the digital store. The computer and OS are still provided by the customer and it is a very limited ecosystem at this point. If I had an Oculus I would only to buy the few exclusive things I wanted to play from their store because if someone else comes out with a much better headset it is much more likely that SteamVR would support it.

Anyone can make a Headset for SteamVR, personally I am hoping someone will come out with a stupid expensive one that has much better screens and lenses than can be put in an affordable HMD right now. How sure is everyone that Oculus will always have one of the best HMDs available?
Edited by Asmodian - 6/26/16 at 2:24pm
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post #129 of 152
This is so hilarious to me since it is a complete 180 from what this guy used to say. I almost feel bad for him.
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post #130 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

This is why, Facebook really wants an Apple like ecosystem where once you are inside you have to give up everything you bought so far to leave.

Apple at least makes a collection of supporting complete devices, all Oculus has is the display, tracking, and the digital store. The computer and OS are still provided by the customer and it is a very limited ecosystem at this point. If I had an Oculus I would only to buy the few exclusive things I wanted to play from their store because if someone else comes out with a much better headset it is much more likely that SteamVR would support it.

Anyone can make a Headset for SteamVR, personally I am hoping someone will come out with a stupid expensive one that has much better screens and lenses than can be put in an affordable HMD right now. How sure is everyone that Oculus will always have one of the best HMDs available?


not sure how you manually edited that quote, but that doesn't sound like something I would say.
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