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post #101 of 226
You are on the right track. One thing that really helps when working on your CPU clock is ensuring your ram and CPU/NB are super stable before upping CPU clocks. A good rule of thumb is to start with something mild like your stock setting and timings and maybe a little bump in Voltage like +0.05v and a mild 2200/2400 CPU-NB/HT speeds with stock or maybe 1 tick above stock voltages on those. Grind the crap out of that set up with stress tests like P95 and IBT at your lowest stock settings on your CPU (ie 3.5GHz on FX6300) to ensure stability and gather base line data on synthetic bench scores. You may need to fine tune them some with more but most AM3+ platforms can handle those settings and higher.

Once you are there it will be a bit easier to work you way up with the small bumps in multiplier and Vcore to see where you top out. Then try working the FSB variations. one step at a time is the key to success. That and taking good notes as you make changes so you can identify what is likely holding you back or causing instability.
post #102 of 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

You are on the right track. One thing that really helps when working on your CPU clock is ensuring your ram and CPU/NB are super stable before upping CPU clocks. A good rule of thumb is to start with something mild like your stock setting and timings and maybe a little bump in Voltage like +0.05v and a mild 2200/2400 CPU-NB/HT speeds with stock or maybe 1 tick above stock voltages on those. Grind the crap out of that set up with stress tests like P95 and IBT at your lowest stock settings on your CPU (ie 3.5GHz on FX6300) to ensure stability and gather base line data on synthetic bench scores. You may need to fine tune them some with more but most AM3+ platforms can handle those settings and higher.

Once you are there it will be a bit easier to work you way up with the small bumps in multiplier and Vcore to see where you top out. Then try working the FSB variations. one step at a time is the key to success. That and taking good notes as you make changes so you can identify what is likely holding you back or causing instability.

Given the fact that I'm hooked like it was crack, I probably will do that at some point. I just figured that 4.0 was a nice "low" number to try to get stable before moving up. It's 100mhz below turbo. I had already found that 3.8 at stock settings was stable on P95 blend for an hour.

Other than bragging rights, what do benchmarks prove?

I will be taking your advice to heart, for sure. Taking notes may prove to be a struggle. I have problems deciding if a certain change in a setting has helped or not. When I first started, I thought that every time I BSOD'ed, I should throw more vcore at it. Seemed to work. If the net says it, then it must be true, right? tongue.gif I know now that's not always the case.

I also thought that if the mobo says somethings default, it's not always the case. It kept setting my stock CPU/NB and HT Link at 2000. It should be 2200/2400. Mobo won't let me hit 2600 HT Link default without using FSB. rolleyes.gif
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post #103 of 226
Pretty sure 970 chipsets are limited to 2400 in most cases without using FSB OCing. The 990FX can go higher and may default at like 2600.

Defualt clocks can be tricky. Running your machine at stock will usually show 2200/2400 if you just resset everything and boot. For some reason switching to auto will show lower speeds like 2000 instead. I have also found mandatory minimums in some cases too which make things tricky...ie if you bump say the NB-CPU speed to 2400 your NB-CPU voltage will auto juno to 1.40v with no ability yo lower it until you clock back down to 2200 speed or lower.


This is very motherboard dependant behavior though, so thats why you really gotta dig in deep, take your time, and learn the ins outs and quirks of your own perticular set up.

If you are really obsessed like me i would suggest loading a spreadsheet with every possible setting you can think of being tracked as well as benchmarks from a variety of sources.


Benchmarka are useful for monitoring relative gains against different settings you have tried. That way you can measurably see when a change you made has some impact. Using multiple sources helps eliminate bias from any single bench.
Edited by gapottberg - 8/10/16 at 11:35am
post #104 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

Pretty sure 970 chipsets are limited to 2400 in most cases without using FSB OCing. The 990FX can go higher and may default at like 2600.

Defualt clocks can be tricky. Running your machine at stock will usually show 2200/2400 if you just resset everything and boot. For some reason switching to auto will show lower speeds like 2000 instead. I have also found mandatory minimums in some cases too which make things tricky...ie if you bump say the NB-CPU speed to 2400 your NB-CPU voltage will auto juno to 1.40v with no ability yo lower it until you clock back down to 2200 speed or lower.


This is very motherboard dependant behavior though, so thats why you really gotta dig in deep, take your time, and learn the ins outs and quirks of your own perticular set up.

If you are really obsessed like me i would suggest loading a spreadsheet with every possible setting you can think of being tracked as well as benchmarks from a variety of sources.


Benchmarka are useful for monitoring relative gains against different settings you have tried. That way you can measurably see when a change you made has some impact. Using multiple sources helps eliminate bias from any single bench.

Thing is CPU/NB always defaults to 2000, but HT Link will default to either 2000 or 2400 after hitting F5. I don't experience any jumps with the CPU/NB voltage. It does fluctuate but only 0.01-0.02 either direction.

The only things I have to benchmark is Cinebench and ASUS's RealBench. Before I post all these pics, everything is stock with the exception of DRAM voltage. I raised it to 1.51v. So here it is:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


I misspoke! The other thing I did was set CPU/NB freq to 2200 and HT Link to 2400. I contemplated raising CPU/NB voltage to 1.20v but technically 2200/2400 is where there should be at.

Edit: Almost forgot digi settings. The usual settings for me except I set CPU LLC to High. It was the only way to get stock settings on core voltage. Ultra High adds 0.02v to the idle and then another 0.012v to the load. When I start moving up it will be changed back to Ultra High.
Edited by Andromydous - 8/10/16 at 2:07pm
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post #105 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

Hey, Sand, I was just to see what the CPU/NB freq does and accidently ran into this: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/596023-Dolk-s-Guide-to-the-Phenom-II
Grant it, the processor is older (I believe it's the thurban you was referring to), but the concept applies. I've only read part of it, but it seems to be the info I've been needing. If you can, give it a look over. If it's solid info, then we can pass it on to other newbs like me. Sure, there will be some that won't listen or think that they need the info, but there will be a few who will listen and use that knowledge.

According to the poster's math, I should be running CPU/NB freq @ 2860 with 4.5ghz. From his post and what the bios descriptions says, HT Link freq should never be faster than CPU/NB speed and doesn't hurt to run slower. So, 2860/2400? Or even 2800/2400? That 2800 seems high, though. What kind of voltage we talking (CPU/NB)?

I guess me trying to run 4.5ghz at 2000mhz CPU/NB is like trying to drive a mustang that can't go past 3rd gear.

Phenom II really sees a huge increase with higher CPU/NB Freq and yes you'd keep the HT at 2000MHz +/- 200MHz.
But not so for the FX you can not treat them the same.

Here's an even better guide for Phenom II which contains a ton of very helpful info (links) and is IMHO still one of the best OC guides as far as explaining the "how to's" and the "what for's" especially when it comes to understanding how to use the Ref Clock. I highly advise giving it a nice going through but remember about the CPU/NB and HT. FX is 2600MHz HT and 2200MHz CPU/NB. Some run 2600/2600. I think this will help you a lot with the basics at least. http://www.overclock.net/t/525113/phenom-ii-overclocking-guide
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post #106 of 226
Also as i understand it...the higher clocks on NB and HT generally help more if you are going with a multi gfx card set up or super high clocks on ram like 2400+. The returns are much smaller in a single gfx card set ups and eith 2133 speed ram or lower, and sometimes non existant depending on the test. Do your own benching to see for yourself though as milage varies greatly depending on your specific hardware.
post #107 of 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sandman View Post

Phenom II really sees a huge increase with higher CPU/NB Freq and yes you'd keep the HT at 2000MHz +/- 200MHz.
But not so for the FX you can not treat them the same.

Here's an even better guide for Phenom II which contains a ton of very helpful info (links) and is IMHO still one of the best OC guides as far as explaining the "how to's" and the "what for's" especially when it comes to understanding how to use the Ref Clock. I highly advise giving it a nice going through but remember about the CPU/NB and HT. FX is 2600MHz HT and 2200MHz CPU/NB. Some run 2600/2600. I think this will help you a lot with the basics at least. http://www.overclock.net/t/525113/phenom-ii-overclocking-guide
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

Also as i understand it...the higher clocks on NB and HT generally help more if you are going with a multi gfx card set up or super high clocks on ram like 2400+. The returns are much smaller in a single gfx card set ups and eith 2133 speed ram or lower, and sometimes non existant depending on the test. Do your own benching to see for yourself though as milage varies greatly depending on your specific hardware.

Oh, I know you can't treat them the same. But the guide I listed did give a little better understanding of somethings. Without doing an FSB overclock, I'm stuck with a max of 2400 for HT Link. When I get to that point I may try a CPU/NB freq of 2600, but I do agree that it would be a point of diminishing return. If I had water cooling and was going for 4.8 or higher, then 2600 might do some good. Theoretical math of the post (CPU Speed * 2 / 3.15) puts a 4.5ghz as having 2560. He did say, however, that it could go either way. I will definitely have a look at the link you gave me. I love applicable information for things I love doing.
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post #108 of 226
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So, I did start a spread sheet. I only included info that's most likely to change. Since I already know how my CPU LLC affects the volts, there's no sense of me putting it in there. I don't plan on doing anything with the RAM freq. I didn't spend the money for an 1866mhz RAM just to run it at 1600mhz. I do need to add temps though. Kinda forgot about those. It's a start.

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post #109 of 226
Add any regular benchmark scores you run for data collection as well to the end. Also when you do temps and volts knowing the min/max/avg after 10 min of idle and 10 min of full load are all useful. Especially for the voltage.

Also...always save this to a thumb drive or in the cloud.
post #110 of 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

Add any regular benchmark scores you run for data collection as well to the end. Also when you do temps and volts knowing the min/max/avg after 10 min of idle and 10 min of full load are all useful. Especially for the voltage.

Also...always save this to a thumb drive or in the cloud.

ASUS ROG RealBench and Cinebench are the only benchmark tools I have and they're on that list.

I've been up to 4.5ghz several times and I know how the CPU LLC settings react to manual bios input. For instance, if I put 1.30v in bios, UH LLC will raise volt to 1.32v on idle and 1.34v on load. There are certain points where it might fluctuate a bit. Like the 1.30v with UH LLC is really 1.33-1.344v. At 3.9ghz that's fine (which probably means I'm over volting a tad). But at 4.0ghz I have to give one bump in bios (1.30625v) to make it a steady 1.344v on load. 99% of the time the pattern holds true. Now, for 4.6ghz on up I have no idea and won't see it until/if I get WC.

Temps is something that's not so straight forward. Let's say that I manage to get 4.5ghz stable, but the temps are right at the "safe" line. It's 10:00PM. Now, take those same settings and run the stress tests at 3:00PM. I'm now past those "safe" temps. I'm sure I was going somewhere with this.........................thinking.gif

It'll have to be thumb drive/printout. I don't do cloud. Call me paranoid, but I don't trust it. I'll refrain from going on a tangent though.


See post #108 where I said that I had forgotten to add the full load temps onto that spread sheet.
Edited by Andromydous - 8/10/16 at 7:26pm
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