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First Time O/C'ing FX6300 - Page 17

post #161 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Monitor your VRM temp. Getting too high can lead to instability. NB Core voltage is also sometimes quite important. When I run RealBench I skip the GPU test.

When using the benchmark option I can disable the gpu part, but the stress test doesn't give me that option. Sand and others had talked about putting a fan over the VRM. With this new air cooler there is no room at all, but it's fan does blow right across the VRM heatsink. I wish there was a VRM temp section in the monitoring program.

Also, besides vcore and possibly CPU/NB voltage, I never know what else to bump, what's the limit, and when to bump them.
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post #162 of 226
Thread Starter 
I took some more pic of my rig, but with the side panel off. I didn't realize it had such a dark tint until I set it up on top of the desk. Looks like I'll be looking into some LED strips. Here's some better pics:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;

Anyways, while I had the case open, I got to looking and realized that I might be able to fit the fan from the stock cooler over the VRM. It was easy I moved the rear fan plug to the front chassis fan port. I then zip tied the north front corner to the mobo 8 pin power line and tucked the south rear corner behind the rear fan. The fan now is blowing at a slight angle over the VRM. It looks like it's sitting with the 2/3 you mentioned, Sand. Here's a the pic of it:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder [7.0.1041] - Jul 19 2011;
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post #163 of 226
Thread Starter 
After passing 10 runs on very high in IBT @ 4.4ghz and after "installing" the fan over the VRM, I gotta say that I'm impressed. The socket temps stayed at 61c or less and the core temp was a couple of degrees cooler. How does a fan over the VRM affect the core temps?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Although I am happy so far, I may be switching to HWMonitor. In cased you missed it in the other pic, I'm going to show you a close up that will make you scream "WHAT THE COW?!?"
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

It's one thing to have to relabel something. It's another when the numbers are off the wall.

Edit: Apparently adding a "W" to a "TF" will get the letters censored.
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post #164 of 226
The top rear of a case is actually a dead zone for air flow so anything done to increase air flow there makes a big difference. Try removing the I/O panel cover and then feel the air blowing out of there.

This is the first time I've seen HWINFO64 giving bad info. Usually it is HWMonitor that is whacky. Oh well, whatever works.
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post #165 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

The top rear of a case is actually a dead zone for air flow so anything done to increase air flow there makes a big difference. Try removing the I/O panel cover and then feel the air blowing out of there.

This is the first time I've seen HWINFO64 giving bad info. Usually it is HWMonitor that is whacky. Oh well, whatever works.

The problem is, like most cases with front fans, the front fans (x2) are placed on the lower 2/3 of the case. I know the top section is reserved for optical drives and what not. However, I use an external optical drive if I ever do need it. So, seeing that I have another spot left on my mobo for a chassis fan and I still have a couple of molex connectors, I'm considering placing a fan in the top section. The whole front of the case is a mesh design so air can still be pulled through it.

I really do like the look of HWINFO64 more, but it even gives wacky numbers for my PSU fan. Not that I'm worried about that so much. The only option is to use a different monitoring software or keep my eye on the temps more constantly. I could use CoreTemp in junction with HWINFO64.
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post #166 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

How does a fan over the VRM affect the core temps?
It's a circuit from the CPU to the VRMs, and back. Some heat that isn't dissipated by the VRM sink can travel back to the core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

The problem is, like most cases with front fans, the front fans (x2) are placed on the lower 2/3 of the case..
For my Lynnfield system I had a case with a 200mm top exhaust fan. I put my H50 cooler in the top of the case, atop the optical drive in push-pull. So cool air would be drawn into the heatsink and exhausted toward the exhaust fan.
post #167 of 226
A common misconception with fans and fan placement in cases is that they actively cool your PC. This is not always true and in many cases is plain false. Case fans generally speaking are more to cycle air into and out of your case. NOT actively cool your components. If you are serious about OCing and want to push the limits of your rig you need to understand the difference between active cooling and cycling the air in your case. Both are important aspects of controlling the thermal properties of your rig.

The fans in the lower front of your case are positioned there for a reason. Most cases are designed to pull cooler air from the front/bottom of the case. once the cool fresh air is in the case its up to your heat sinks to transfer heat away from the motherboard and into the case air itself. Then more fans expel it out the top/back of the case where it will generally rise and dissipate into the room and not get pulled back into the case from the front fans due to convection.

Heatsinks will tansfer heat much more rapidly if they are in an air current rather than just in a case with static air that is heating up and moving only by convection. Much like how a fan can make you feel cooler on a hot day, the moving air is able to pull heat away from the heatsink at a higher rate than convection will alone. This will have 2 effects. The heat of your motherboard and other components will be pulled away much more rapidly and thus maintain lower temps overall. However this will make the air temp in the case raise more rapidly. When you "cool" your PC the heat doesn't just disappear, it gets transferred to the air itself. Hot air generally rises slowly when compared to cooler air...so if you have good fans blowing cooler air into the bottom/front of your case, the hot air will rise naturally while the rear/top fans help expel it out of the case more efficiently. This ensures your case doesn't become an oven...which can happen if your fans are not cycling air properly.

Even with good case fans cycling air and active cooling on major heatsinks, you can still get hot spots where air becomes trapped and isnt cycled. The most common location for this phenomenon is the air space behind the motherboard and around the socket under your motherboard. Many times a small fan to actively cool this region, or at the very least get the air moving so it is more readily cycled out of the case itself, can really make a huge difference in controlling overall temps. Many builders who have case modded or jerry-rigged such a set up have reported temp drops of up to 10'C or higher on socket and CPU max temps under load. Your mileage may vary, but its an easy way to improve your stability and Ocing if temps are holding you back.

Good luck. thumb.gif
post #168 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg 
around the socket under your motherboard.
I always mount a fan to blow there but I usually use a 140mm not a small one. The ATX design is out of date.
post #169 of 226
Thread Starter 
Too early in the morning/late at night for me to quote everyone.

Not counting the newly added VRM fan, I have 2 120's in front and 1 140 on side pulling air in. There's 2 120 on top and 1 120 in rear pulling air out. Whether their "good" fans......I don't know. The original retail price for my case is $90. They are quiet and I do feel a tremendous amount of air being pulled out in the back and top. So much so that I kept trying to find a better place for the rig because the heat kept rising up to my face. And I already have to deal with my chest expelling a tremendous amount of heat.

I did, however, get a little to happy too soon. I had problems with 4.4ghz (still haven't figured it out), so I went back to 4.3ghz. I ran P95 for a tad over 4.5 hours. During which core had hit 61c at some point and socket hit 65c. Socket still has a little room, but I'm disappointed with core temps. Based on earlier runs, I thought I was seeing 4.5ghz on the horizon. Looks like 4.4ghz is back off the table.

I don't have the tools to mod my case and there's barely enough room back there for the wires. Doubt I could find a fan thin enough to fit back there. So my options is to replace all my fans with "better" fans or buy a case that has more airflow options. It's also a possibility that I don't have enough room above the rig to expel the air sufficiently. Which means I'm back to trying to find a place for my rig where I can still see inside, has good airflow all around, and not be in the way.

I am starting to discover one thing: For AMD CPU users, you should be willing to spend at least the same amount on your case, PSU, CPU cooler, and your Mobo as you do your CPU. So when you start a build take the cost of your CPU and multiply it by 5 (excluding the cost of an OS). So in my situation, I should have started with a baseline of $500 before storage, GPU, and OS. However, I'm still proud of my rig! tongue.gif

Oh and here's a pic of the 4 and a half hours P95. Some say 2 hours is fine and some say at least 6, so I found a middle ground.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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post #170 of 226
Yes mounting a fan in the top front area of the case does make a very large difference in overall cooling. I highly recommend doing it. In fact I use just 4 case fans. 3 in the front and one in the top front. A case exhaust fan is not needed and is in fact a restriction to case air flow.



Current case design is just plain awful. Decades ago the basic tower layout was accepted and it worked well with good air flow. But when the PSU was moved to the bottom of the case the CPU was moved up into a dead air zone. This was ok with the low power CPUs of the time but is death to FX.

There are alternative designs out there like the ones that rotate the motherboard 90 degrees and pull air up from the bottom and exhaust it out the top. Then there are the ones that mount the motherboard upside down. This puts the CPU directly in the path of the case fans for better cooling. There are also cases that lay the motherboard down flat. These designs are too wide to fit on my desk.

My next case will probably be the Corsair Air 540 cube. It mounts the PSU behind the motherboard and has the potential for lots of case air flow. The biggest problem with air cooling is the heat that gets trapped in the case, causing it to run hotter. The case fans need to move more air than the CPU and GPU fans combined in order to get proper cooling.
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