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First Time O/C'ing FX6300 - Page 8

post #71 of 226
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So, I didn't get a chance to do a custom P95 test because pc blue screened during while using an android emulator. Perfect time to note what Ultra High setting for CPU LLC does. At stock vcore input of 1.30v, idle was 1.32v and full load was 1.332v. So from boot I get a 0.02v bump and then another 0.012v bump at full load. If my math is correct and I'm shooting for 1.30v at full load, I would have to put in 1.268v in bios. If that's right, then a 4.5ghz with target vcore of 1.488v would require me to input 1.456v in the bios. Going to try Medium and see what it does and then update.

Medium gives a 0.008v bump, but it is fluctuating between 1.296v and 1.308v. At full load it drops to 1.284v. So, to hit a 1.30v vcore target, I would need to input 1.316v in bios. So, let's put this in a shorter, more digestible form.

CPU LLC | Bios vcore | idle vcore | load vcore | vcore to counter variance
Medium | 1.30v | +0.008v | -0.024v | 1.316v
High | 1.30v | +0.012v | +/- 0.000v | 0.000v
Ult High | 1.30v | +0.020v | +0.012v | 1.268v
Edited by Andromydous - 8/6/16 at 7:26am
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post #72 of 226
That is some good data collection right there. Do be aware that the actual quantities of gain/loss may change as you go higher in voltage. The general pattern should remain true but your go to numbers may be off bybsome margin. Still a good place to start. Good luck.
post #73 of 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gapottberg View Post

That is some good data collection right there. Do be aware that the actual quantities of gain/loss may change as you go higher in voltage. The general pattern should remain true but your go to numbers may be off bybsome margin. Still a good place to start. Good luck.

I know that High stays the same all the way up to 1.488v in bios. I'm almost postive that Ultra High does as well. How does CPU Current Capability affect the voltage/overclock?The data I gathered was with 110% CPU CC.
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post #74 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

I know that High stays the same all the way up to 1.488v in bios. I'm almost postive that Ultra High does as well. How does CPU Current Capability affect the voltage/overclock?The data I gathered was with 110% CPU CC.

One good way to find out. LoL. Data collection trumps speculation and anecdotal advice every day of the week.
;-D
post #75 of 226
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There are just certain things that don't get explained or are explained so vaguely that it's not really an explanation. I tried looking up CPU Current Capability, but can't find an understandable explanation for it and why you should or should not use 130% over 110%. Same goes for CPU LLC. To my understanding, you're looking for the setting that gives the least vdroop/vraise. So why does the Piledrive/Bulldozer guide recommend Ultra High? I even seen one person on ASUS ROG forum suggesting that setting CPU LLC on Medium is actually better.

From what I've experienced, setting LLC on medium or regular would mean that I'm running my CPU hotter on idle for no reason. Technically, High would do the same thing. While Ultra High does start higher than the manual input, it does increase during load and lowers back down during idle. But, with idle being higher than manual input, what effect does it have?

I've also tried to research what "fine tuning" an overclock means. Only found vague, if not nonexistent explanations. It's almost like a novice is expected to know certain things without those certain things being made available to learn.

Also, Sand, I've looked at Digi+ with A.I. Tune set to manual rather than DOCP and there is nothing for DRAM. It may be a setting that's only on 990 and 990x chipsets. I may be completely wrong. I just know that my bios doesn't have it. I have come to realize, however, that manual is better than DOCP when overclocking because DOCP does a lot more than allow me to pick my DRAM profile. According to the description it "optimizes" a bunch of stuff without explaining how it optimizes those things. The way I read the description is this: "May interfere with your overclock."
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post #76 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post



When it comes to the digi settings, I don't like to mess with things that I don't fully understand. Did I mention I learn more from doing that I do from reading or hearing? Anyways, I don't know how CPU Current Capability (110%, 120%, and 130%) affects the voltage or overclock. I do, however, know enough to take it off of auto. Most of what I've read just tells the audience to put it at a certain setting, but don't explain what it does, how it affects overclocking, and how it affects MB/PSU. The piledriver/bulldozer guide that I've read over and over again and use as much as possible still gives recommended settings without really getting into what those settings do or how they affect overclocking. What's the difffernence between CPU CC being at 110% vs 130%?

You keep telling me about IBT and I keep putting it off. One reason for that is IBT was a PITA to even find where to download. Most of the places I've found were 3-4 year old articles. I did find and download IBT, but still I haven't installed it yet. I haven't even unzipped it yet. P95 is straight forward. I hit small FFT test and run for 10-20 minutes while heading toward my target overclock and then run custom with 75% ram for at least 1 hour. IBT, on appearance, seems to be a lot more complicated and I already have my head swimming with overclocking information. For someone like me who's usually running on little to no sleep, my brain will fry before my cpu ever does. tongue.gif

I completely understand how sometimes "New" settings can be intimidating. There simply isn't a lot of useful info around.
You're right on track starting with lower settings (110% etc) and following through till a given point in your OC. This is exactly how you learn your equipment with various combinations. It's also the same path I followed back when I was first bitten and again when learning this 9590 and CPU Power Thermal Control. To help get over the unknown be assured that as long as you don't just turn all the Digi settings to Extreme at the same time you most likely would not damage a PSU. You're more likely to encounter instability before damage. Work only one area at a time and note any changes in test results and failure times. 130% is simply where most have found the best results when starting out.

Here is the proper version of IBT AVX for the FX's http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202
You are correct IBT is old, but it comes from approx the same era and tests using AVX.
It is available in many different versions, this one is for the FX series.
Version # is also important for Prime95 you'll want version 27.9 as all later version are moded for newer CPUs are are known for sometimes causing issues.
It's not that IBT is better than P95, only easier/faster to see changes in pos or neg results. If you post a snip showing HWInfo64 and IBT from link set to very high and 10 runs I'd be happy to help explain more what I mean.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

I know that High stays the same all the way up to 1.488v in bios. I'm almost postive that Ultra High does as well. How does CPU Current Capability affect the voltage/overclock?The data I gathered was with 110% CPU CC.

If memory serves me right you are interested in C&Q. As you learn CPU Cur Cap and how it can affect things also consider Offset Voltage Mode. Only mentioning it again as it too can change things and better to get it handled early in the learning process as you may find that after a certain CPU multiplier setting C&Q may only function if using Offset voltage. It's this way on both my CHIV and CHV-Z.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

There are just certain things that don't get explained or are explained so vaguely that it's not really an explanation. I tried looking up CPU Current Capability, but can't find an understandable explanation for it and why you should or should not use 130% over 110%. Same goes for CPU LLC. To my understanding, you're looking for the setting that gives the least vdroop/vraise. So why does the Piledrive/Bulldozer guide recommend Ultra High? I even seen one person on ASUS ROG forum suggesting that setting CPU LLC on Medium is actually better.

From what I've experienced, setting LLC on medium or regular would mean that I'm running my CPU hotter on idle for no reason. Technically, High would do the same thing. While Ultra High does start higher than the manual input, it does increase during load and lowers back down during idle. But, with idle being higher than manual input, what effect does it have?

I've also tried to research what "fine tuning" an overclock means. Only found vague, if not nonexistent explanations. It's almost like a novice is expected to know certain things without those certain things being made available to learn.

Also, Sand, I've looked at Digi+ with A.I. Tune set to manual rather than DOCP and there is nothing for DRAM. It may be a setting that's only on 990 and 990x chipsets. I may be completely wrong. I just know that my bios doesn't have it. I have come to realize, however, that manual is better than DOCP when overclocking because DOCP does a lot more than allow me to pick my DRAM profile. According to the description it "optimizes" a bunch of stuff without explaining how it optimizes those things. The way I read the description is this: "May interfere with your overclock."

Again for CPU Current Capability info I do feel your pain.
For me (IIRC) it was a slightly noticeable increase in performance (this means actual IBT results improved) with a slightly lower required Vcore before instability set in with each increase up to 130%. On my setup next step is 140% and no benefit found at all.

The LLC effects you ask about are exactly what I have and are normal. If I understand the question. All my OC's run this way.

"fine tuning" a method of OCing where each of four areas (CPU, HTT/FSB, NB, Dram) is OC'd/tested independent from another to reach max clock for each area.
Next step/s is to combine these results/data (all achieved using minimum voltage) into a complete system OC. The key is starting low and working your way up with minimal voltage increases rather than the "Ole Brute Force" method and just throwing voltage at it and see what you end up with. How else would you know how little a chip can run on?

It may be my bad on the Dram settings when I mentioned them to be in the Digi area.
I believe I was thinking these (please forgive it was late lol) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

To get started (off DOCP) I enter what's on the sticker of the dram itself. Reboot/re-enter Bios and you can enter what the Bios is showing to fill in the blanks that were left on auto. Again this makes a good starting place that won't change once it's locked down. The more things kept consistent the better!
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post #77 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sandman View Post

I completely understand how sometimes "New" settings can be intimidating. There simply isn't a lot of useful info around.
You're right on track starting with lower settings (110% etc) and following through till a given point in your OC. This is exactly how you learn your equipment with various combinations. It's also the same path I followed back when I was first bitten and again when learning this 9590 and CPU Power Thermal Control. To help get over the unknown be assured that as long as you don't just turn all the Digi settings to Extreme at the same time you most likely would not damage a PSU. You're more likely to encounter instability before damage. Work only one area at a time and note any changes in test results and failure times. 130% is simply where most have found the best results when starting out.

Here is the proper version of IBT AVX for the FX's http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202
You are correct IBT is old, but it comes from approx the same era and tests using AVX.
It is available in many different versions, this one is for the FX series.
Version # is also important for Prime95 you'll want version 27.9 as all later version are moded for newer CPUs are are known for sometimes causing issues.
It's not that IBT is better than P95, only easier/faster to see changes in pos or neg results. If you post a snip showing HWInfo64 and IBT from link set to very high and 10 runs I'd be happy to help explain more what I mean.
If memory serves me right you are interested in C&Q. As you learn CPU Cur Cap and how it can affect things also consider Offset Voltage Mode. Only mentioning it again as it too can change things and better to get it handled early in the learning process as you may find that after a certain CPU multiplier setting C&Q may only function if using Offset voltage. It's this way on both my CHIV and CHV-Z.
Again for CPU Current Capability info I do feel your pain.
For me (IIRC) it was a slightly noticeable increase in performance (this means actual IBT results improved) with a slightly lower required Vcore before instability set in with each increase up to 130%. On my setup next step is 140% and no benefit found at all.

The LLC effects you ask about are exactly what I have and are normal. If I understand the question. All my OC's run this way.

"fine tuning" a method of OCing where each of four areas (CPU, HTT/FSB, NB, Dram) is OC'd/tested independent from another to reach max clock for each area.
Next step/s is to combine these results/data (all achieved using minimum voltage) into a complete system OC. The key is starting low and working your way up with minimal voltage increases rather than the "Ole Brute Force" method and just throwing voltage at it and see what you end up with. How else would you know how little a chip can run on?

It may be my bad on the Dram settings when I mentioned them to be in the Digi area.
I believe I was thinking these (please forgive it was late lol) Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

To get started (off DOCP) I enter what's on the sticker of the dram itself. Reboot/re-enter Bios and you can enter what the Bios is showing to fill in the blanks that were left on auto. Again this makes a good starting place that won't change once it's locked down. The more things kept consistent the better!

Unfortunately, I can find the older version on the official Prime95. They do have 27.9 but it's for Mac and FreeBSD. So I'll have to go hunting for it. As far as the IBT, turns out that the one I've downloaded is the same place you listed. Now, if I can just get my stubborn self to use it.

I have seen ASUS MB's that have settings in DIGI+ for VRM and DRAM. Mine only has the VRM and only if I leave vcore on auto. Makes no sense to me at all.

I haven't determined whether I want CNQ, yet. I read statistics one time that said the average 24/7 system runs $25-30 a year. If a year was only 10 months, then it'd only be $2.50-$3.00 a month. Either way, I will look into it. From another site (ASUS ROG forums), a couple of people were saying that they'd get a stable oc manually and, once they had it stable, they would change it to offset.

I believe I've found a use for DOCP. Since it is, at it's core, the same as x.m.p., I can select it, choose my profile, save/apply, and then reboot. Even if I change DOCP back to manual the current settings to the left will give me a more pinpoint setting info compared to allowing auto to give me the setting info. I hope I made sense. I would love to know why ASUS didn't include x.m.p. setting. My DRAM x.m.p. info is listed under SPD on the information page in A.I. Tweaker. Heck, my wife's MSI Grenade MB has it on the main page without ever having to go into the MSI equivalent to A.I. Tweaker. But, I digress.

When you refer to HTT/FSB are talking about the freq (in my case 2200 and 2200) or are referring to the BCLK of 200? From some of the articles and forums I've read going from 2010-present, the labels have changed and I would be somewhat lost if I was using Intel.

One of the things I have learned about vcore from forums, videos, and experience is that the higher clock you go the more volts you need per step up. For instance going from a 3.8ghz oc with stock vcore to 3.9ghz I would need to bump vcore 3 times. However at 4.4ghz, I've bumped it as much as 4-5 times. So, I'm guessing that's where the "fine tuning" comes in. It should allow me to not have to bump vcore so much. Right? biggrin.gif
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post #78 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromydous View Post

When you refer to HTT/FSB are talking about the freq (in my case 2200 and 2200) or are referring to the BCLK of 200? From some of the articles and forums I've read going from 2010-present, the labels have changed and I would be somewhat lost if I was using Intel.

One of the things I have learned about vcore from forums, videos, and experience is that the higher clock you go the more volts you need per step up. For instance going from a 3.8ghz oc with stock vcore to 3.9ghz I would need to bump vcore 3 times. However at 4.4ghz, I've bumped it as much as 4-5 times. So, I'm guessing that's where the "fine tuning" comes in. It should allow me to not have to bump vcore so much. Right? biggrin.gif

HTT is AMD term while FSB is Intel both relate to Ref Clock
I miss the Thuban days note the ref clock Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Correct
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post #79 of 226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sandman View Post

HTT is AMD term while FSB is Intel both relate to Ref Clock
I miss the Thuban days note the ref clock Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

You're talking about the 292mhz Bus speed? Got it. I went a head an looked it up. I'm used to it being referred to strictly as base clock, bus speed, or FSB. The "HTT" was throwing me off.
Edited by Andromydous - 8/7/16 at 3:32am
Blud Nox
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Blud Nox
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post #80 of 226
Thread Starter 
Got a question about Prime95. Yes, Sand, I do plan on working with IBT. Also, I've downloaded ROG RealBench just to have a more rounded set of tools to work with. Anyhoo.......

The Piledriver/Bulldozer guide says to use small FFT's for the 10 minute test and custom (with 75% Ram) for the longer tests. I seen a video where the guy used straight blend all the way through. Jayz2Cents used small FFT's all the way through. So which is the better test? Can you, also, theorize why I've never had a core failure. Black screen and blue screen is all I get. Besides reaching the edge of temps, that is. You were right, btw, about the 2 screens. If my pc straight up reboots, then I just bumped up CPU/NB one time. If blue screen, I bump up vcore at least twice for good measure. Cores never fail individually which makes me wonder if I am the only one and why that might be happening.

I'm about to embark into some deeper territory. I hope I don't overload my brain. biggrin.gif
Blud Nox
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Blud Nox
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AMD FX-6300 970 PRO GAMING/AURA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950 G. Skill Sniper 
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