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[TinyBuild] G2A sold $450k worth of our game keys that we received no payment for - Page 16

post #151 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post

It is not the developers, it is the publisher's fault...!

Never loose sight of that.

Pubs, devs, who cares, it's both their faults. If Devs don't agree to the Pub's ridiculous sales model they need to stand against it. If they don't have the intestinal fortitude to do it, tough. And I will lose sight of that because it's their responsibility, not the person purchasing. wink.gif
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post #152 of 260
You'll never know either way. There are probably more keys on these sites that are paid for with fraud than not.
post #153 of 260
Complaining for the sake of,no one's fault if some invidivuals decide to do credit card fraud. Literally everyone on the interwebz can get scammed with credit card fraud.

LOL at people ITT demanding G2A to investigate wether the keys on their marketplace were obtained via fraudulent means. They absolutely have no obligation to do so,all they provide is a marketplace just like ebay.

Just try to blame eBay when you get scammed.

Previous record has shown that publishers can easily disable keys,just like it happened with Sniper Elite 3.
Edited by GoLDii3 - 6/25/16 at 1:59pm
post #154 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

I've been in this type of discussion before. I'm still trying to figure out how it's news or anyone's responsibility to handle besides the publisher's. If keys are bought with stolen card numbers, I guess the card company has a problem.

Bottom line, I don't care where the keys come from, or who's selling them. Why should I? Do you think publishers worry about how you're paying rent?

Im with you, just bought far cry primal on kinguin for $31 with insurance last week. I couldnt care less how much money these multi billion dollar companies lose. G2A and Kinguin even have apps on the Google Play Store. Theyre even better than the desktop sites.
Edited by Tgrove - 6/25/16 at 4:29pm
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post #155 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

I've been in this type of discussion before. I'm still trying to figure out how it's news or anyone's responsibility to handle besides the publisher's. If keys are bought with stolen card numbers, I guess the card company has a problem.

Bottom line, I don't care where the keys come from, or who's selling them. Why should I? Do you think publishers worry about how you're paying rent?

 

Quite so. AAA publishers, like AAA film studios, need to learn that attempting to squeeze blood from a stone only hurts your hand. They learned to love e-commerce quickly once they realised it would cut production costs in terms of packaging, shipping, and distribution. Then they really learned to love e-commerce once they fell in love with micro-transactions. If games were advertised as DLC-free I'd gladly pay full price. I'd do the same for any game featuring a definitive DLC schedule with the understanding that they'd be of at least a 'Point Lookout' class. Most major publishers are pretty far from meeting those standards, so when a new COD comes out and I want to mess about in the single-player (as an example) I'll look for the cheapest possible legal source.

     
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post #156 of 260
This whole thing has me confused, im pretty sure there is something fundementally flawed with their business model. Is TinyBuild providing keys to their partners without upfront payments? and how is it that TinyBuild doesn't know exactly which one of their partners is reselling keys in bulk? Seems like tracking which keys went to which resellers would be business 101...
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post #157 of 260
If the gaming industry wasn't such a mess, I might have had some sympathy for them. But I don't, at all. I'm more amazed how people are crying "poor devs" when they're probably wearing a T-shirt made by a <12 year old from Bangladesh.
post #158 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra View Post

http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/8006693/the-truth-behind-those-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes
The source article of this very thread also mentions it.
So that would be EA/Origin's responsibility since they sold keys in mass to people with stolen cards. Regardless or not if g2a is in business, those keys would still be bought with stolen cards to be sold elsewhere. I'm not sure how the blame is being directed at g2a and not the source of the keys who are the "Origin" of the key theft.
post #159 of 260
I just see whining from TinyBuild. They were PROUD on number of sold copies of all 3 their "famous" titles and how huge profit they got and now suddenly they are calculating "possibility" for what they could've achieved. Looks like that either they are breaking apart for some reason or they have other plans for future so they want some drama around them. They are fairly small indie developers, can you imagine how much companies like Square Enix, Ubisoft and others are scammed of on this very same way ?

Someone said gaming wasn't this kind of mess. Well it wasn't. There was piracy and 50% gamers from poor countries would go there, download games and everyone would be happy. Newwadays Denuvo protection among others made block there so people are forced to exploit and find different ways of getting hands on games. Grey or black market, I'm fairly happy how I made purchases in past for over 1k bucks when I sum all games, not to mention that I sold many games bought from sales or bundles.

Not defending anyone here, but as active seller and buyer I see only improvements in G2A system and it's really not fair how they made system to work toward seller comparing to buyer. But nontheless it's a good market. Tinybuild should look up forward and not calculate what they COULD achieve in past. No business go smooth without losses. And as someone said, it's their fault for not looking up at their partners. I'm in couple different press teams where I get supplied with keys for review on my website and youtube community, and I see every second day tweets or on private section reported sold keys which are sent as review copy so they are tracked, person is blacklisted, key is revoked. Simple as that.

Just saying, if they wanted serious business they needed to be more serious. End of story.
post #160 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

What's the difference between reselling a key and charging my friend $5 every time he wants to come over and play said game?

Non sequitur

Quote:
If I sell that game key, I can no longer play, but the other person can, so at any one time, the same number of people can play the game.

You seriously need to re-evaluate your stance on first sale doctrine.

No, you need to understand that digital goods are highly different than physical goods. First-sale doctrine protects what might be considered copyright infringement otherwise, such as reselling a book. Reselling a game key or software is very different because, as said, used is exactly good as new. Run a checksum on the two files and tell me if the result is different. (And given that the doctrine was first recognized in a 1908 Supreme Court case, I'm not sure it was written with 1s and 0s in mind...)

Let's use libraries as an example. If they lend a paper book, it will be in pristine condition only to the first person who receives it. After that, it will degrade. If it's popular enough, it will eventually fall apart. What about ebooks? Those don't degrade at all, something inherent to any digital good. Combine that with the fact that I can make millions of copies of ebooks for the price of electricity and hard drives, and you have a law that simply does not work (without heavy revision) for anything digital.

Try thinking critically about an issue rather than acting condescending toward people who have the audacity to disagree. You might learn something. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

But doesn't the exact same thing happen if you resell a console game? I guess you could argue the physical disc degrades a bit, but that's largely inconsequential. And devs don't seem to have an issue with console games being resold, so why are digital keys any different?

Yeah, for all intents and purposes, optical discs don't degrade. They do over time, but they're digital rather than analog, so they're as good as new as long as all the bits can be read. Compare to something like a record, for example, where the simple act of playing it causes it to wear down.

Devs do have an issue, hence the second paragraph I wrote:

Quote:
EA for example had online passes for their games. Buy new and you get it for free, buy used and you spend $15 or so to play online. Completely reasonable given the server upkeep costs.

Well, publishers, I suppose, rather than devs.
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