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[TinyBuild] G2A sold $450k worth of our game keys that we received no payment for - Page 8

post #71 of 260
Isn't buying and selling stolen goods just as forbidden as stealing goods, in most civilised countries?
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post #72 of 260
You're assuming they're all stolen.

I thought G2A and those other sites just buy keys from other countries and sell them at discounts to countries where the exchange rate creates a discount.

I don't really know how Publishers and Devs can just let fraudulently purchased keys get out into the market... maybe they should stop bundling.

It's not like some truck hits a bump on the road and some units fall off.
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post #73 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1LL View Post

Isn't buying and selling stolen goods just as forbidden as stealing goods, in most civilised countries?

One would typically require evidence based on more than hearsay from a tabloid.
post #74 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

One would typically require evidence based on more than hearsay from a tabloid.

It also kind of sound like they're a little mad that some businesses found a way for people to resell keys...

That dastardly grey market includes: Pawn shops, ebay, Gamestop, garage sales, etc...

Publishers want to stop reselling altogether... so I'm for sites like G2A as long as key were purchased legal transactions.

Geo-blocking/ price discrimination on the internet makes no sense.

For some reason Publishers can make money selling COD 12: REdux for $20 in Russia, yet in the West, they need to sell it for $60...

Not that I ever used any of these sites since I think Steam had good enough deals...
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post #75 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

It also kind of sound like they're a little mad that some businesses found a way for people to resell keys...

That dastardly grey market includes: Pawn shops, ebay, Gamestop, garage sales, etc...

Publishers want to stop reselling altogether... so I'm for sites like G2A as long as key were purchased legal transactions.

Geo-blocking/ price discrimination on the internet makes no sense.

For some reason Publishers can make money selling COD 12: REdux for $20 in Russia, yet in the West, they need to sell it for $60...

Pawn shops?! EBAY?!?? GASP rolleyes.gif

If rival distributors cannot adapt to market trends, perhaps they shouldn't be in business.
post #76 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

You're assuming they're all stolen.

I thought G2A and those other sites just buy keys from other countries and sell them at discounts to countries where the exchange rate creates a discount.

I don't really know how Publishers and Devs can just let fraudulently purchased keys get out into the market... maybe they should stop bundling.

It's not like some truck hits a bump on the road and some units fall off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

One would typically require evidence based on more than hearsay from a tabloid.

Yes of course. I just wanted to give another perspective to people who think "G2A didn't steal themselves, so all is good.", of which i read in here.

I always thought that these resellers are creating a Grey Market, meaning buying in a lower cost region and selling in a high cost region, which was not intended by the devs/Valve but is also not illegal. I can imagine stolen keys to appear on these sites from time to time though.
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post #77 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1LL View Post

I always thought that these resellers are creating a Grey Market, meaning buying in a lower cost region and selling in a high cost region, which was not intended by the devs/Valve but is also not illegal. I can imagine stolen keys to appear on these sites from time to time though.

Yeah. Unless they can show that a significant portion of ALL the sales on there are from fraudulent purchases (not just one title being hit hard), I don't see how G2A and the like are at fault.

If Publisher X dumps 10,000 keys in Poland for $10 a key to some company, and Publisher X allows those key to be activated in many different languages/ regions; I don't see an issue if the company that bought them sells them to G2A for $20 and G2A sells them in the West for $30....

With digital "goods," I just don't see how Publishers can loose control of keys. The Publisher should make those key only active certain languages, or vet their partners better.
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post #78 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

G2A is assuming all their sellers are "innocent until proven guilty". This invites the sellers who used fraud to get the keys. Just by looking at the prices on brand new games, you can tell theres a large amount going on. The guys selling the keys are obviously not doing enough to stop it, but that doesn't change the fact that G2A is selling a lot of keys that the devs never saw money for.

Who you blame the most for the keys being stolen is up to you. Yes, tinydev used the classic "game pirate math" where they take the highest msrp and use that for every game sale to calculate loss.

Whatever stupid things tinydev has done to get their game stolen so much doesn't change the fact that G2A is being used as a place to turn the temporary money from stolen cards (it gets charged back when owner realizes) in to real money when people buy the keys.

Think it gets turned into real money regardless, as long as the transaction makes it through the pending phase. Pretty sure it's the CC companies which eat the charge.
post #79 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

Yeah. Unless they can show that a significant portion of ALL the sales on there are from fraudulent purchases (not just one title being hit hard), I don't see how G2A and the like are at fault.

If Publisher X dumps 10,000 keys in Poland for $10 a key to some company, and Publisher X allows those key to be activated in many different languages/ regions; I don't see an issue if the company that bought them sells them to G2A for $20 and G2A sells them in the West for $30....

With digital "goods," I just don't see how Publishers can loose control of keys. The Publisher should make those key only active certain languages, or vet their partners better.

It's pretty simple. Some publishers also distribute licenses while some (usually smaller publishers) outsource it. There's nothing stopping a company (which buys from the publisher or distributor) from reselling a mass amount of keys unless there's an agreement in place. So, stolen credit cards could be used to purchase large amounts of keys for resale on places like G2A when you have third parties in-between. More links in the chain, the smaller control there can be.
post #80 of 260
I think it will come down to the actual percentage of keys that were purchased with fraudulent CC transactions.

It happens in every business. If a significant portion are fraudulent, then these sites have an issue.
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