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Skadoodle and Semphis: Logi new mouse - Page 79  

post #781 of 1323
So far away sad-smiley-002.gif
post #782 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ino. View Post

My guess would be he meant the original FK and was not remembering what that is in current models (it's the FK2).

Also I'm one of the people who really likes the FK1+ size.
Isn't the mx300 the same as the rx250 shape? If so then I don't really see a big difference to the G100s really. But I'm all ears what the differences might be.

The g100s is every so slightly wider and rounder and feels chunkier. How much of a difference it is will depend on hand shape and grip style.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashTV View Post

Those mice don't move as many units as one would think is the issue. That is why I suggested in an earlier post to buy these up. Logitech did it twice and if they don't move units then you'll have another G9 scenario.

Those Sensei clones, despite being everything that was suggested from keyboard product managers for years, do not sell incredible amounts and yield Wall Street profits and totally own the gaming mice consumer market like it was fore told.

You have it in the last few posts where people are suggesting marketing angles and such showing how detached they are from reality. The other mice are selling loads (check the earnings statements and places like Amazon top seller lists) and yet people are thinking the mice aren't popular. Stuff like this (and the Aurora for that matter) would be why companies don't listen to that small section of the community.

Again, buy it up. Show up with your wallet. Otherwise it may not happen ever again.

I know what you mean, most of what I post here is in jest. Brick ricer mice are a standard for a reason.

Most users don't really think a whole lot. They figure weight = quality. They figure that if you put your hand on a mouse and it feels comfortable, that's where the idea of comfort ends and begins. They don't notice how dramatically their grip changes in-game and plenty of other considerations. Sure, there's a certain wisdom in just picking up whatever and getting used to it instead of nitpicking. But there's laziness and shortsightedness in not realizing when a certain habit is impeding your potential performance.

I argue that big companies can and should afford to cater to a wider range of gamer needs. For example, Zowie does not shy away from offering multiple variants of the FK even if the differences don't remotely matter to Dorito Joe.

Logitech clearly cares about minute details as well, but when it comes to shape, they're consistently missing the mark. They have their brick mouse in the G502 and it's selling well - for all the wrong reasons. Then the 302/303 was their attempt at doing it right and delivering a shape that should appeal to the more demanding crowd. And while some people liked it, nobody ever recommends the 303 without a warning about the shape. Now take a look at the g100s which is a poor quality mouse, yet extremely popular among the demanding crowd simply because the industry is adamant in not offering this kind of shape. It's the opposite of the g303 - people only recommend it for the shape but then proceed to warn you about the low FPS sensor, 500hz cap, bad quality switches, etc. It should be a budget mouse for kids who can't afford better, yet it's shape alone is pulling in a very different crowd.

I'm not saying that small mice without huge butts suitable for fingertip gripping can or should be a standard that replaces The Brick. Simply that the supply is low enough that the relatively smaller demand could actually reap real profits. I think it's kind of weird that Logitech is willing to experiment and pull something radical and weird like the G303, yet upgrading the g100s to a premium model is somehow risky.
post #783 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erecshyrinol View Post

I think it's kind of weird that Logitech is willing to experiment and pull something radical and weird like the G303, yet upgrading the g100s to a premium model is somehow risky.

I plucked this out specifically. When the G302 was released, there was much bubbling about "well if it had a 3366/Fusion Engine I'd use it!!" because people obviously missed the MOBA part (where sensor is less important and clawing w/ that shell is emphasized). G303 was born and a large amount of the same people were bubbling about "well if it had a different shape/my hands aren't made of toothpicks I'd use it!!". The G302 was cannibalized by the G303, of which it was cannibalized by the corner of the market that wanted it. I look on it and shake my head and note that is a reason why companies don't bother listening to that niche group. The G303 was a bad idea propped up by the community.

And to a degree I do agree with you certain types of mice are popular for a reason. My main point is not to cater to the niche group, for that will not sell units. Zowie could only dream of moving as many units as Logitech or Razer. Throw them (the small nook of the consumers) a bone but don't have them dictate the products. The company would never win.

Case in point, this G200 will drop and I'm sure it's not going to be selling out like mad. Which is why I'm saying to anyone reading these posts and interested to buy it up, because it (read: major company pushing something to the niche - twice) probably isn't going to happen again.

If you're into cars, think of it like the FR-S/BRZ/86. Yeah, it's not everything an enthusiast could ever dream of, but it's the most important release in a long while since the collapse of the 90s tuner era. The success of that car will make or break re-investment into an inexpensive enthusiast vehicle again.
post #784 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashTV View Post


If you're into cars, think of it like the FR-S/BRZ/86. Yeah, it's not everything an enthusiast could ever dream of, but it's the most important release in a long while since the collapse of the 90s tuner era. The success of that car will make or break re-investment into an inexpensive enthusiast vehicle again.

 

Well, without saying too much, its more like a FT1 that looks like an AE86 with LED Headlights at the Pricepoint of the BRZ.

 

Also my Experiences with the BRZ/GT86 were relatively disappointing, like with the Zowie´s, its more about the potential if certain changes are made. :D

post #785 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashTV View Post

I plucked this out specifically. When the G302 was released, there was much bubbling about "well if it had a 3366/Fusion Engine I'd use it!!" because people obviously missed the MOBA part (where sensor is less important and clawing w/ that shell is emphasized). G303 was born and a large amount of the same people were bubbling about "well if it had a different shape/my hands aren't made of toothpicks I'd use it!!". The G302 was cannibalized by the G303, of which it was cannibalized by the corner of the market that wanted it. I look on it and shake my head and note that is a reason why companies don't bother listening to that niche group. The G303 was a bad idea propped up by the community.

And to a degree I do agree with you certain types of mice are popular for a reason. My main point is not to cater to the niche group, for that will not sell units. Zowie could only dream of moving as many units as Logitech or Razer. Throw them (the small nook of the consumers) a bone but don't have them dictate the products. The company would never win.

Case in point, this G200 will drop and I'm sure it's not going to be selling out like mad. Which is why I'm saying to anyone reading these posts and interested to buy it up, because it (read: major company pushing something to the niche - twice) probably isn't going to happen again.

If you're into cars, think of it like the FR-S/BRZ/86. Yeah, it's not everything an enthusiast could ever dream of, but it's the most important release in a long while since the collapse of the 90s tuner era. The success of that car will make or break re-investment into an inexpensive enthusiast vehicle again.

You have a good point, but there is a crucial difference between the G302/303 situation and the idea of returning to the tenets of the MX300/g100s. People were eager to try out the G302/303 because it seemed like a good idea. Logitech comes out with a small, lightweight mouse and probably the best sensor and switches on the market. What could go wrong? Well, the shape -- and you really can't blame the community for disliking it. I think rare few claimed to be excited about the G302 shape, but they were willing to try it out because they were desperate. So the G303 appears boasting insane specs and people can't not try it out. But it's a disappointment.

I think the problem here was not in listening to the community, but half-listening. So, Logitech came out with this nebulous idea of a MOBA mouse that nobody ever really asked for. I'm pretty sure this was just an attempt to cash in on the MOBA craze as best as they could. I mean, a MOBA mouse? Really? Why is it not a Starcraft/RTS mouse? What's the difference except that the word MOBA moves more units? Accidentally though, they piqued the interest of a largely ignored group of people who want a small fingertip solution and saw this mouse as a possible messiah -- as they often do in anything that looks remotely fitting for their purpose. I suppose Logitech was as confused as anyone and when they realized G303 is turning some unexpected heads, the same g302 shape under a new name wasn't marketed as a MOBA mouse anymore.

So in essence, this is not Logitech listening to the community, but sort of loosely paying attention and interpreting the information as they see fit.
post #786 of 1323

The shape of the G302/303 was based on heatmaps of how people held the G100S. It was meant to be a compromise and as it turns out some like it and others greatly dislike it.

 

 

I don't expect the G200 to sell in huge amounts either. In fact Logitech probably doesn't expect them to either. It's meant to cover a price point for the people who can't afford a G502 or want a more claw grip mouse. Marketing as a MOBA mouse with new-fangled click technology is just a way of differentiating it from the rest in the market.

post #787 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreyka View Post

The shape of the G302/303 was based on heatmaps of how people held the G100S. It was meant to be a compromise and as it turns out some like it and others greatly dislike it.


I don't expect the G200 to sell in huge amounts either. In fact Logitech probably doesn't expect them to either. It's meant to cover a price point for the people who can't afford a G502 or want a more claw grip mouse. Marketing as a MOBA mouse with new-fangled click technology is just a way of differentiating it from the rest in the market.

Well i'm probably going to buy around 10 throughout the life of the mouse if that means anything. (assuming its the mouse we're expecting)
Edited by zeflow - 8/6/16 at 11:58am
post #788 of 1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erecshyrinol View Post

You have a good point, but there is a crucial difference between the G302/303 situation and the idea of returning to the tenets of the MX300/g100s. People were eager to try out the G302/303 because it seemed like a good idea. Logitech comes out with a small, lightweight mouse and probably the best sensor and switches on the market. What could go wrong? Well, the shape -- and you really can't blame the community for disliking it. I think rare few claimed to be excited about the G302 shape, but they were willing to try it out because they were desperate. So the G303 appears boasting insane specs and people can't not try it out. But it's a disappointment.

I mostly do blame the community for it, because there was no other reason to release the G303 and cannibalize your G302 product. The G302 had it's own lane there and obviously in development for a while (the shape, the buttons, the price, the sensor, all screamed MOBA angle), and I very much doubt anyone would have been trying to get used to it if it wasn't a community bred mouse like the G303 was. As I said people were propping the G302 up, having not used it, as Earth buying it up if it had a 3366. The tables flipped and suddenly shape is an issue, this that and the other.

I think CPate said that the mouse didn't do as well as they had hoped. That was lesson 1 for listening to the community. Me personally I felt that the G303 did not need to be released, ever. A G100s update sure, but not the G303.

EDIT: One interview of many with how it the G302 came around to be and how the G303 was born from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erecshyrinol View Post

I think the problem here was not in listening to the community, but half-listening. So, Logitech came out with this nebulous idea of a MOBA mouse that nobody ever really asked for. I'm pretty sure this was just an attempt to cash in on the MOBA craze as best as they could. I mean, a MOBA mouse? Really? Why is it not a Starcraft/RTS mouse? What's the difference except that the word MOBA moves more units? Accidentally though, they piqued the interest of a largely ignored group of people who want a small fingertip solution and saw this mouse as a possible messiah -- as they often do in anything that looks remotely fitting for their purpose. I suppose Logitech was as confused as anyone and when they realized G303 is turning some unexpected heads, the same g302 shape under a new name wasn't marketed as a MOBA mouse anymore.

So in essence, this is not Logitech listening to the community, but sort of loosely paying attention and interpreting the information as they see fit.

It wasn't so much a nebulous idea nobody asked for as much as it was a strict design based on the target audience they wanted. Logically speaking any mouse is a mouse for any game, true, but that's not how marketing and product development pans out.

The MOBA centric mice don't move units here as much as they do overseas for obvious reasons. They have a different expectation of the hardware they use. You can see some of those traits in the G302. After all Cloud 9 has an extensive MOBA division before FPS ones so there's a lot of knowledge that goes into the mouse. I'm sure it sells fine over there and isn't as looked down upon as over here.

Lastly, I do hope Logitech keeps half-listening. They hit it right with their performance, tracking and firmware, choice of sensors and newly developed technologies that overall appeal to the entire community at large. It's all the subjective things they wouldn't follow the community too close on because you truly cannot please everybody.
Edited by SmashTV - 8/6/16 at 2:33pm
post #789 of 1323
It also dosen't really make sense as Moba players and RTS players in particular tent to prefer safe shapes. The g303 was such an awkward mouse, I'm not surprised it didn't do well considering the only way it catered to its target market was the clicks.
post #790 of 1323
I used the g303 for an entire year with the sensor rattle fix, ended up rmaing it cause that thing literally destroyed my wrist. I think Logitech is to blame here, the only reason they created the g302 shape was to try and sell something which looked like a Starwars spaceship from the name to the shape combined with the "moba" label just to sell them to moba kids since they know most kids would like that lighting pattern, the shape stands out and ofc it was labeled as the moba mouse with amazing clicks. And then they realised kids play cs go too, and people wanted a light weight mouse with the 3366, so why not reuse the g302 with a different sensor and go full gimmicks so kids go throw some money at their local store instead of wasting money creating a new light weight mouse from scratch cause let's face it, the g100s looks like a cheapo mouse.

IMO saying that logitech was answering the demands of the mice nerds by creating the g303 is having too much faith in them, to me they simply saw a chance to reap some money from kids. If there's one mouse from them that may have as a primary target the growing pro/competitive/mice nerd niche and then kids, it has to be this one.

But maybe I'm completely wrong axesmiley.png
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