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OBS studio and FX 8 cores

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
How well does this combo record 1080p 60fps gameplay?


I want to build a Vishera 83** at 4.5 with a single RX 480 to use on a Nixeus 1080p free-sync monitor.

Please don't assume it'll work. I would prefer the CPU experience with OBS recording at 1080p/60

Obviously settings will be important, but they always are.

Is this doable are am I stuck with an i7 till Zen?
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRUSH View Post

How well does this combo record 1080p 60fps gameplay?


I want to build a Vishera 83** at 4.5 with a single RX 480 to use on a Nixeus 1080p free-sync monitor.

Please don't assume it'll work. I would prefer the CPU experience with OBS recording at 1080p/60

Obviously settings will be important, but they always are.

Is this doable are am I stuck with an i7 till Zen?

I have a buddy that has the 8320 and OBS streaming absolutely annihilates that CPU. He gets bad frame rate drops at any thing more than ultrafast and 720P downscale for his encoding in basically any game that is slightly CPU bound. I would advise against AMD for anything involving streaming (Or gaming, or encoding).
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post #3 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post

I have a buddy that has the 8320 and OBS streaming absolutely annihilates that CPU. He gets bad frame rate drops at any thing more than ultrafast and 720P downscale for his encoding in basically any game that is slightly CPU bound. I would advise against AMD for anything involving streaming (Or gaming, or encoding).

This is a new one. OBS appears to be using x264 encoding. An FX8350 in x264 is roughly equivalent to i5 6600K.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-skylake-core-i5-6600k-review

If your friend can't record, he is probably using bad settings and also depends on game. I don't know OBS, but for instance, normal x264 encoder, assigns 12 threads on an 8 core. It's rather obvious, that if you have a game that uses 4 cores and you have OBS set to similar default values of using 12 threads, you have the CPU that in total must run 16 threads at the same time. Which is a bit problematic for an 8 thread CPU, isn't it.

Just saying, i don't know OBS settings, but if there's something that FX is good at, it's encoding.


EDIT: Here's from the mouth of a moderator at OBS forum:



https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/hows-the-fx-8350-for-obs-streaming-1080p-while-gaming.2871/


Not that i had much doubt about it... As with most things, the problem is lack of knowledge. Video encoding is a particularly heavy task, that brings a CPU on its knees at high resolutions and quality. One must know what the settings do:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MeGUI/x264_Settings

It took me about a year of reading avidly video experts' posts, as well as encoding myself and comparing results, to arrive to a point, where i can say that i know what i am doing. And i still don't know everything. I just know what i need to know and i don't use "exotic" values, like some real gurus know. And this was without running a game at the same time. If someone expects that he can master the "art" of video encoding, just by installing a program and pressing a button and thinks that one setting will fit all games, he is probably overly optimistic. The most mundane thing, is that you must adjust the settings according to the game. It's rather obvious that if you run a game that runs 8 threads, there aren't many free resources left for encoding, so you must use light settings on the encoder. If a game uses 1 core, you can use heavier settings on the encoder.

@ IRUSH: I think you 're better off asking at OBS forum about the specific requirements you ask. Personally, i can't answer, cause i 've no idea, as to what kind of source (bitrate) a game corresponds to. But 1080p is a tough resolution. For instance, if you get a Blue ray source and try to convert it to 1080p with at least medium settings, there is no way you can get 60fps. And this without anything else running at the same time. Now, the question is, what's the "source bitrate" of a game? Because this is crucial. The lower the source bitrate, the higher the fps you get.
Edited by Undervolter - 6/27/16 at 11:25am
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post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
^^ I thought it would maybe just come down to the settings. I understand what you're saying too in regards to what the game can take leaving the rest for obs.

Maybe there's hope after all !

I really want to get back into an AMD build, badly. I think you know that from my random AMD posts that you seem to always be in to help.

Thanks a bunch!
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

This is a new one. OBS appears to be using x264 encoding. An FX8350 in x264 is roughly equivalent to i5 6600K.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-skylake-core-i5-6600k-review

If your friend can't record, he is probably using bad settings and also depends on game. I don't know OBS, but for instance, normal x264 encoder, assigns 12 threads on an 8 core. It's rather obvious, that if you have a game that uses 4 cores and you have OBS set to similar default values of using 12 threads, you have the CPU that in total must run 16 threads at the same time. Which is a bit problematic for an 8 thread CPU, isn't it.

Just saying, i don't know OBS settings, but if there's something that FX is good at, it's encoding.


EDIT: Here's from the mouth of a moderator at OBS forum:



https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/hows-the-fx-8350-for-obs-streaming-1080p-while-gaming.2871/


Not that i had much doubt about it... As with most things, the problem is lack of knowledge. Video encoding is a particularly heavy task, that brings a CPU on its knees at high resolutions and quality. One must know what the settings do:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MeGUI/x264_Settings

It took me about a year of reading avidly video experts' posts, as well as encoding myself and comparing results, to arrive to a point, where i can say that i know what i am doing. And i still don't know everything. I just know what i need to know and i don't use "exotic" values, like some real gurus know. And this was without running a game at the same time. If someone expects that he can master the "art" of video encoding, just by installing a program and pressing a button and thinks that one setting will fit all games, he is probably overly optimistic. The most mundane thing, is that you must adjust the settings according to the game. It's rather obvious that if you run a game that runs 8 threads, there aren't many free resources left for encoding, so you must use light settings on the encoder. If a game uses 1 core, you can use heavier settings on the encoder.

@ IRUSH: I think you 're better off asking at OBS forum about the specific requirements you ask. Personally, i can't answer, cause i 've no idea, as to what kind of source (bitrate) a game corresponds to. But 1080p is a tough resolution. For instance, if you get a Blue ray source and try to convert it to 1080p with at least medium settings, there is no way you can get 60fps. And this without anything else running at the same time. Now, the question is, what's the "source bitrate" of a game? Because this is crucial. The lower the source bitrate, the higher the fps you get.


I'm not sure encoding speed alone is the proper way to look at it. Look at the skylake review that you linked.... You get Grand Theft Auto 5, Ultra, no MSAA 70.2 FPS with the 6600k and 47.5 FPS with the 8350. Right here you have a game that due to the CPU is only borderline playable at the settings given with the 8350 even with a beast GPU... I would consider anything less than constant 35 FPS unplayable. If you add encoding for streaming on top of an already huge CPU bottleneck you are just asking for trouble. You can afford to loose 20 FPS on your game when you are getting 70 FPS... You absolutely cannot when you are getting 47.
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post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRUSH View Post

^^ I thought it would maybe just come down to the settings. I understand what you're saying too in regards to what the game can take leaving the rest for obs.

Maybe there's hope after all !

I really want to get back into an AMD build, badly. I think you know that from my random AMD posts that you seem to always be in to help.

Thanks a bunch!

Yes, yes, i also remember your unfortunate adventures with the UD3P R2.0, as well as with the El Gato thing. Video encoding, is much more complex than you think. For instance, it's not just about source bitrate or quality either. In the same game, in areas where you have many things moving , you will get less fps than in a more static scene. This is called "scene complexity". In particular, one of the x264 settings, is called "merange". This is closely related to fast moving objects. For example, in films, a good value is 24. But if you get a film with very fast moving things (like missiles, flying things or something like "Avatar"), you want MORE. As in 32, some go all the way to 64. This prevents on having "blurred" image in the high motion frames. But the drawback, as all things in video encoding, is that the higher the merange, the less the fps.

But, i 've no idea as to what kind of source generally a game is, this is why i think it's better to ask the people who do this in daily basis, who are obviously, in the OBS forum. For example, i know, that anime (cartoon) source video, has special video encoding setting requirements, compared to a normal film. So it's possible, that games also have some "strange settings".
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post #7 of 25
It depends on the game. Old crap games like Skyrim or Arma will run poorly, but anything modern will fly. For instance this is Dirt Rally. There is lots of head room for other things to run.

And then there is the intel gimp which is still present despite all claims to the contrary. Handbrake before and after the ICC Patcher. Note the increased loads.
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post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by killeraxemannic View Post

I'm not sure encoding speed alone is the proper way to look at it. Look at the skylake review that you linked.... You get Grand Theft Auto 5, Ultra, no MSAA 70.2 FPS with the 6600k and 47.5 FPS with the 8350. Right here you have a game that due to the CPU is only borderline playable at the settings given with the 8350 even with a beast GPU... I would consider anything less than constant 35 FPS unplayable. If you add encoding for streaming on top of an already huge CPU bottleneck you are just asking for trouble. You can afford to loose 20 FPS on your game when you are getting 70 FPS... You absolutely cannot when you are getting 47.

I posted that for the x264 benchmark values. The CPU will play the game as it can. What i am trying to say, is that x264, by default, is set to use ALL cores of a CPU. If a game uses 4 cores, if you don't want to have the one program bottlnecking the other, you must set 4 cores to use x264. That's all. This happens with any CPU, including Intels. It's how x264 works. x264 was created as a codec for FILMS, not games. This is why the default encoder, is set to use ALL your cores and for heavy enough task, to use 100% of your CPU.

So, if you want to avoid the game losing fps because of the encoder, you should better 1) set the encoder to use the cores that are NOT used by the game, 2) preferably, set the encoder to lower process priority than the game.

This is as general principles for encoding while doing other things. OBS may have its own quirks in that, i don't know. But that's the rule. It's obvious, that if a game uses 4 cores and the encoder tries to use the same cores and the encoder is set to the same priority, then the encoder will be interfering with the game.
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post #9 of 25
You could also use GPU rendering...
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post #10 of 25
This is an old video, using XSplit to record the game. It's always x264:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE

Normally, the Intels playing the game alone, would win. They don't here. Why? Because at the same time, they must record. And this becomes a game of free resources (how many cores are left free from the game) and settings. So you get "weird" results. Why? Because, if a game uses 2 cores, it has 6 left in an FX and only 2 left in a quad Intel. This changes from game to game and with that, change the ability of the CPU to cope better or worse with the required threads.
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EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
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FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor M6S 128GB Toshiba 2TB SATAIII LiteOn Blu Ray burner IHBS 112-2 Xigmatek Balder 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro 64bit Samsung S22B350H Microsoft Wired 600 Corsair VS350 
CaseMouseAudio
Lepa LPC 306 Logitech M90 Onboard 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Scythe Katana 3 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 22" VS228HR Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor M6S 128GB Toshiba 2TB SATAIII LiteOn Blu Ray burner IHBS 112-2 Xigmatek Balder 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro 64bit Samsung S22B350H Microsoft Wired 600 Corsair VS350 
CaseMouseAudio
Lepa LPC 306 Logitech M90 Onboard 
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