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post #1031 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

I get that, and I don't disagree with your assessment. I'm just throwing in my two cents towards the holistic perspective that AMD's perf/watt has been poor for so long so that even these improvements which might have been good a few years ago are now barely meeting the minimum of what was promised. What I want to know is if it's just the continuing symptom of GCN's perf/watt issues or a product of the difficulty AMD is facing with designs on the 14nm node, and more specifically, porting the inefficient GCN design to 14nm. Curious cat. coolsmiley03.png

I really think there's just something wrong with 14nm LPP. I mean if Fury (non X) has 92% the efficiency of P10 on 28nm, then surely this must be something to do with 14nm LPP. Even discounting for HBM Fury should still end up with at least 80% of P10's efficiency, and that's just ridiculous for a node shrink + transition to FinFET.
post #1032 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post


I really think there's just something wrong with 14nm LPP. I mean if Fury (non X) has 92% the efficiency of P10 on 28nm, then surely this must be something to do with 14nm LPP. Even discounting for HBM Fury should still end up with at least 80% of P10's efficiency, and that's just ridiculous for a node shrink + transition to FinFET.

 

Agreed. I hope it's not an issue with the node but that's the most likely culprit. That's why I'm so keen to see 460 and 470 efficiency numbers. If they also push the limits of their designs in terms of efficiency then it will be a very strong indicator that the node itself poses a problem that GCN exacerbates. 

     
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post #1033 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I really think there's just something wrong with 14nm LPP. I mean if Fury (non X) has 92% the efficiency of P10 on 28nm, then surely this must be something to do with 14nm LPP. Even discounting for HBM Fury should still end up with at least 80% of P10's efficiency, and that's just ridiculous for a node shrink + transition to FinFET.

Cause Fury X is a sleeper lol. Most of its Compute performance does not get used up because of Internal bottlenecks. Looks at Nano. Why is it so efficient? Think of P10 as a Turbo car. Small engine but uses as much fuel as a big engine.
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post #1034 of 3674
I was expecting more from this card, somewhere between a 390x and Nano to be precise. I think these cards will perform better with more cooling and maybe another 6 pin connector. The question is how much better, >1,500mhz better?

And the elephant in the room is that the green team is still way ahead in efficiency, this cards matches the 1070 is power consumption but is about 45% slower in DirectX 11 titles. All Nvidia has to do now is have the 1060 6gb match the 980 with all kinds of OC headroom and its a rap for this card. I am still intent on getting two of these because I want the higher VSR resolutions so I can game above 2880x1620 and Tahiti has to die at some point, it might as well be now.

I would like to take a moment to thank the 7970 for performing well beyond its time, that card just would give and give when it had no business still be relevant.
    
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post #1035 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post

Going to lay down a few things one last time...

- GCN =/= Maxwell or Pascal In terms of architectural components
- GCN has always had worse P/W than nvidia counterparts
- From Grenada/Tonga/Fiji P/W is up 1.77x, which AMD stated in the PR slides months ago that P/W increases were approximately 1.8x (special cases up to 2.8x)
- This is a huge step forward in P/W for AMD; THIS CARD IS STILL GCN, with minor tweaks
- This card is in the price bracket of the 380x and GTX 960, in which the RX480 is SIGNIFICANTLY faster
- The price is good
- The P/W jump is comparable to Nvidia's for their OWN architecture; both being attributed mostly to node changes
- AMD made not a single official statement hyping this card to be anything more than what we got; all of the hype blame rests on you as forum users and the rumor mills, NOT AMD.

This is a good card, at a good price. Many people expect the 1060 to drop soon, but until then Nvidia doesn't have a new direct competitor which is good for AMD.

It's sad that so many users are posting drivel when many guests will come view this site for information and guidance, and be so horribly mislead by nosensical and borderline bipolar comments being made. This card is by no means a failure, and as far as I see this almost exactly what AMD told us they set out to do.

 

I don't substantially disagree with any of this. I still would have liked to see better perf/watt than the minimum of what was promised but I give them that they did provide exactly what they said they would. It will improve with AIB models and with drivers, I'm quite certain of that. I think it's a good card, I think it will sell well.

 

I'm not blown away by what AMD or Nvidia has done thus far and that's just the enthusiast part of me talking. The observer still thinks this ends up as a win for AMD relative to their recent releases. The enthusiast part of me wishes it was a reality-shattering triumph because that's what the market-space needs more than anything right now. I'm still keen on seeing the AIB models, and I still think people on 600-series Nvidia and 6/7000 series AMD cards can find a nice and inexpensive upgrade with an AIB 480.

     
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post #1036 of 3674
Looks like the 14nm GloFo silicon is a complete dud. This should be a surprise to no one. Hopefully AMD goes back to 16nm ASAP for their GPU's. I feel this chip on 16nm would have been at least 25 percent better than it turned out.
post #1037 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

Agreed. I hope it's not an issue with the node but that's the most likely culprit. That's why I'm so keen to see 460 and 470 efficiency numbers. If they also push the limits of their designs in terms of efficiency then it will be a very strong indicator that the node itself poses a problem that GCN exacerbates. 

I'm really hoping AMD goes back to TSMC for Vega. 16nm FF+ seems to be the clear winner over 14nm LPP at this point, assuming the perf/watt we're seeing is not a result of some serious deficiency in GPU design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Cause Fury X is a sleeper lol. Most of its Compute performance does not get used up because of Internal bottlenecks. Looks at Nano. Why is it so efficient? Think of P10 as a Turbo car. Small engine but uses as much fuel as a big engine.

Fury non-X dude. Nano is only about 6% more efficient than Fury non-X.

I understand what you're getting at though, but as I said, that just makes things even worse. If AMD has to push P10 to its limits and break its efficiency just to get 970 performance, this doesn't bode well at all for the high end stuff they have planned.
post #1038 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post

Going to lay down a few things one last time...

- GCN =/= Maxwell or Pascal In terms of architectural components
- GCN has always had worse P/W than nvidia counterparts
- From Grenada/Tonga/Fiji P/W is up 1.77x, which AMD stated in the PR slides months ago that P/W increases were approximately 1.8x (special cases up to 2.8x)
- This is a huge step forward in P/W for AMD; THIS CARD IS STILL GCN, with minor tweaks
- This card is in the price bracket of the 380x and GTX 960, in which the RX480 is SIGNIFICANTLY faster
- The price is good
- The P/W jump is comparable to Nvidia's for their OWN architecture; both being attributed mostly to node changes
- AMD made not a single official statement hyping this card to be anything more than what we got; all of the hype blame rests on you as forum users and the rumor mills, NOT AMD.

This is a good card, at a good price. Many people expect the 1060 to drop soon, but until then Nvidia doesn't have a new direct competitor which is good for AMD.

It's sad that so many users are posting drivel when many guests will come view this site for information and guidance, and be so horribly mislead by nosensical and borderline bipolar comments being made. This card is by no means a failure, and as far as I see this almost exactly what AMD told us they set out to do.

Someone actually understands what is going on, sadly, many people in this thread don't seem to understand this basic logic. Many of those same bad users I notice post way more often than anyone else as well rolleyes.gif

You sir, get a +1 thumb.gif
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post #1039 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

I know, but what I'm telling you is anything that is more than $199 and $229 is not AMDs fault. That is tariffs, taxes, and greed at work that AMD does not cash in on at all.

No, my friend. My country does not charge import duties and customs at 100%. Infact Zauba has them importing it at a declared value of about 200$. I'm still hoping against all hope but the outlook is grim.
Maybe i'll delve into the second hand market. My 7950 is showing artifacts and I just ordered replacement fans because one just broke.
post #1040 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I'm really hoping AMD goes back to TSMC for Vega. 16nm FF+ seems to be the clear winner over 14nm LPP at this point, assuming the perf/watt we're seeing is not a result of some serious deficiency in GPU design.
Fury non-X dude. Nano is only about 6% more efficient than Fury non-X.

I understand what you're getting at though, but as I said, that just makes things even worse. If AMD has to push P10 to its limits and break its efficiency just to get 970 performance, this doesn't bode well at all for the high end stuff they have planned.

Does it matter though? I never cared that my 290X used 275W. It was always a beats. Just look at GTX1080 for example. They could have chosen to clock it 200-300MHz lower and get to GTX980 Ti performance but deiced to push it too the max too. Both sides kind of killed overclocking. GCNs true p/w is in DX12.
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