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post #2671 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post




thank you to those of that are paying attention to or interested in my jimmes. biggrin.gif

but the point is if you are trying to look at driver optimizations; you would be better served using several samples over a given time. you'll very likely see peaks and valleys for most any given game/benchmark for both AMD and nVidia.

but hey, don't let science get in the way of spinning an agenda for either side.

carry on.

Not sure why you lumped me in on those responses. I actually criticized AMD but beyond that this crap is all off topic. This is a RX 480 review thread, not sure how the 290x or nvidia cards from 2013 have any place. Anyways you guys enjoy your off topic stuff, i am moving on.
post #2672 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagget3450 View Post

Not sure why you lumped me in on those responses. I actually criticized AMD but beyond that this crap is all off topic. This is a RX 480 review thread, not sure how the 290x or nvidia cards from 2013 have any place. Anyways you guys enjoy your off topic stuff, i am moving on.

It's not off-topic if we're addressing potential long-term value of the 480. But who knows? Maybe Tahiti and Hawaii were complete flukes and performance has topped out for Polaris. I don't believe that for a second though, since game updates and developer experience are critical to architecture performance.
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post #2673 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Driver updates don't happen in a vacuum. Hawaii performance today is better because of game patches as well as the Crimson updates, which in most cases optimize specific games. In some cases these game updates only occurred after backlash from AMD users.

You guys above-- I don't understand your argument. Are you putting up a straw man that the drivers alone are supposed to be responsible for the AMD improvements over time, and then trying to debunk that by saying it's the game patches that do it?

Because the improvements over time are incontrovertible. Just look at any DX11 bench for the 7970 and 290x from 2013 compared to 2016, for the same title, compared to similar benches for Maxwell / Kepler.

its called methodology.

its NOT appropriate to take one sample from 2013 and one from 2016 to draw a conclusion for overall performance increase/decrease. you could very well be basing your conclusion from picking a "bad driver" as older sample and compare it to a "good driver" from a recent release. too much chance is on the table.

this is a better example of what to do:
2012 AMD Video Card Driver Performance Review

6 samples for 12 months would give a better demonstration of what to expect. wink.gif
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post #2674 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

Science? Science needs to be based on fact.

That video you linked used a benchmark from Fallout 4 patch that was replaced just days after release because it was so bad.

That video, at least on the Fallout 4 part, was based on nothing but speculation. Confirmed by the fact that no other source ever reported the same results.

Science isn't based on "facts." Science is based on observation and independently verifiable, evidence derived through rigorous testing. Many things that were called "science" were shown to be not consistent with newly discovered evidence.
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post #2675 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

its called methodology.

its NOT appropriate to take one sample from 2013 and one from 2016 to draw a conclusion for overall performance increase/decrease. you could very well be basing your conclusion from picking a "bad driver" as older sample and compare it to a "good driver" from a recent release. too much chance is on the table.

this is a better example of what to do:
2012 AMD Video Card Driver Performance Review

6 samples for 12 months would give a better demonstration of what to expect. wink.gif

Yes, well-- I suppose if I made money from clicks I'd have some methodology for you, but I'll let others do that work and make my own evaluation of the data. As it is my experience is anecdotal and I have no requirement or benefit for you to believe it or not.

Hopefully Kyle can update that article with-- oh wait-- no, he's not likely to do that, is he? Not exactly a cold, impartial scientist these days.
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post #2676 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

its called methodology.

its NOT appropriate to take one sample from 2013 and one from 2016 to draw a conclusion for overall performance increase/decrease. you could very well be basing your conclusion from picking a "bad driver" as older sample and compare it to a "good driver" from a recent release. too much chance is on the table.

this is a better example of what to do:
2012 AMD Video Card Driver Performance Review

6 samples for 12 months would give a better demonstration of what to expect. wink.gif

Yes, well-- I suppose if I made money from clicks I'd have some methodology for you, but I'll let others do that work and make my own evaluation of the data. As it is my experience is anecdotal and I have no requirement or benefit for you to believe it or not.

Hopefully Kyle can update that article with-- oh wait-- no, he's not likely to do that, is he? Not exactly a cold, impartial scientist these days.

ah, you want to be lazy and self centered. nothing wrong with that.

since you want others to do the work for you; kyle had nothing to do with that article:
Quote:
Date:
Monday , February 18, 2013
Author: Grady McKinney
Editor: Brent Justice

do you even look bro?
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post #2677 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

ah, you want to be lazy and self centered. nothing wrong with that.

Careful, kettle. I'm not the one stomping on the ground calling for science. My effort wouldn't have the method you're demanding, since it would look only at the 290x, a sample of one-- and a watercooled one at that.

If you're asking me to drop coin on multiple obsolete Nvidia and AMD cards and spend a few days running trials just to provide you with raw data, then yes, I suppose that makes me "lazy", but it sure doesn't make me the most "self-centered" one in the room. rolleyes.gif

As far as the 480 driver improvements go, well, I think that's played out. Can't talk about something that hasn't happened yet, and @looniam would have a stronger argument to state that past driver improvements with other GCN architectures don't in any way imply that Polaris will experience the same thing.
Edited by infranoia - 7/10/16 at 3:22pm
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post #2678 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

Careful, kettle. I'm not the one stomping on the ground calling for science. My effort wouldn't have the method you're demanding, since it would look only at the 290x, a sample of one-- and a watercooled one at that.

it seems you don't understand; i didn't say anything about one piece of hardware but to use several samples of drivers. anecdotal evidence aside, it would have been much better data to draw a conclusion from than comparing just two drivers; the point of discussion is drivers.

and after you edit:

don't get so touchy. letting others to do the work for you is letting yourself get spoonfed data that would be most appealing for you. simply not looking at who wrote the driver review article is a decent example. not questioning testing methods or looking at ways to improve them is another.

assumption much?
Edited by looniam - 7/10/16 at 3:28pm
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post #2679 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

it seems you don't understand; i didn't say anything about one piece of hardware but to use several samples of drivers. anecdotal evidence aside, it would have been much better data to draw a conclusion from than comparing just two drivers; the point of discussion is drivers.

Actually no, the point of discussion is the 480 and Polaris. We're going to need either 1. another year, or 2. another thread to have the discussion you'd like to have.

I'm definitely interested in that other conversation though. Namely, what would the methodology be, since games are constantly patched, and drivers have specific game optimizations that work together with game patches? Tough to patch games incrementally over time, as they would do over Steam, to test the corresponding driver releases.
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post #2680 of 3674
Anyone who keeps up with gpu benchmarks should notice many of cards pulling ahead of kepler.

I don't understand your argument. Go look at some 480 reviews if you need benchmarks. Or continue denying the apparent
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