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Overclock (i7 950 to 4GHz) Causing high DPC Latency - Why? - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Well, after a bit of testing, DPC latency still is there on 3.8 OC, but only very occasionally. I could almost say it isn't an issue any more.
I didn't get a boot loop yet, but when I restart the machine it feels like it finds it difficult to start. It would power up and down a couple of times, crank up the PSU a few times and only then get to POST. Is this normal for overclocked systems? Without OC it would just power up and POST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sora1421 View Post

You are overthinking the whole thing and unless you want to get into the specifics of electrical engineering I suggest you ensure that your system is stable after a minimum of 12 hours in Prime95 first as TwoCables suggests. The more agreed upon time was always 24 hours straight in the past but many would only do 12 and not have real problems. A lot of weird problems can happen when you overclock something too high. After all, we are directly changing frequencies from what they were designed for initially.

The chip most likely simply can't handle those clocks at the current frequency without more juice. 70c is already about the maximum you want to allow this generation to go. Boot loops are generally the computer telling you that your BCLK is too high with the current Vcore.
I really prefer to get at least rough understanding of causal connections, because it gives me good context to understand a particular problem.
So, you reckon DPC spikes causing audio crackling are possible because CPU had not enough voltage with that overclock?
And giving it more voltage at that point would be risky due to having inferior cooling.
This is an interesting thought. I will probably try to increase voltage and see if that gets rid of DPC spikes completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Of course, lol, it's only 200 MHz higher than 3.8 GHz.
I think at this point I just fall victim to my OCD and wanting to stretch it to the original desired target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post

Might want to give LatencyMon a try.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

It can help you track down exactly what driver is causing the high latency that you are seeing.
I actually used Latency Checker to visualise spikes and captured data with xperf
xperf –on DiagEasy
Ater catching some spikes, I exported the data
xperf -d %userprofile%\Desktop\trace.etl
And then sent it to viewer
WPA "%userprofile%\Desktop\trace.etl"

It does show me the drivers causing the problem, but the driver is dxgkrnl.sys. From googling this, I could not really dig anything up except it being related to nVidia drivers. And I have already lost count how many times I reinstalled various versions of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Net Prowler View Post

A few things...

1) The H100i V2 should help.

2) In my very limited ocing experience, it is to my understanding that you let the motherboard define the memory speed and timing (ie don't enable xmp). Once you get a stable set up with the processor side of things (whenever overclocking), you can then focus of the memory and manually set the timings and voltage to something that will work with the new BCLK and frequency of the CPU. Most of the time, this will NOT be the xmp profile settings.

3) Isn't there a better program to test overclocking stability besides prime95? Or maybe prime95 is still best for that platform? IDK, something worth checking out perhaps...

4) Make sure you have enough airflow going across the north and south bridge heatsinks on the motherboard as well. Those get hot when overclocking!
I tried XMP without CPU OC, just to check for a boot loop whenever XMP was used. But yes, I would set all values manually instead for a proper OC profile.
I am getting a CPU cooler and I think I have sufficient air flow. For intake I have front, bottom and side fans (14, 12 and 20 cm). For exhaust I have a 14 cm fan that blows out hot air from CPU sink (which is cooled by its own cooler), and a 20cm fan exhausting remaining heat from the top.
I will replace the CPU cooler with H100iv2 and put its heat sink and fans exhausting from the top. The fan that currently exhausts CPU heat will be turned around to provide fresh intake air for the CPU.
(I'm not sure about this last one, though). It might become insufficient exhaust, in which case I will try a different set up.
post #22 of 30
Next to being a 100% sure that your OC is stable like others have suggested i have another few pointers about latency on PC's.

First stop using DPC latency checker and use Latencymon.

-You will see TC/IP (network drivers) cause alot of latency, you can try different drivers. (some give off more latency then the other)
-Disabling Hyperthreading will reduce latency by a good amount, but if you really want to disable it is another thing.
-If you have an Nvidia GPU uninstal its driver and see how much it reduces latency (you can re-instal it later)
-Disabeling HPET in Bios can sometimes reduce latency.
-Change CPU power plan in Windows so that your CPU never clocks below 2400mhz, mine used to clock to 800mhz, upping it to 3200mhz reduced latency by alot for me.

If this all doesnt help you can try increasing buffers on your audio players.

Next to that if you now measure low latency, say always under 1000us (dunno how the do micro sign frown.gif ) but still have pops/cracks then it could also be that you have poor or no grounding.

These tips (just tips sadly not 100% solutions) can only be done when you are 100% sure your OC is stable though.

Edit:
Here is how you set up buffers in players like Foobar.

Measure your latency for about 5 minutes.
Only look at the first 2 bars.
Play some music.

Screenshot of my PC.


Highest is 123us, if you then set up buffers to this number or slightly higher (like 135us) you should never get a pop/crackle because of latency.
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post #23 of 30
Use Asus Real Bench to see if you are stable, also. I find that if Real Bench doesn't read my system properly and report the CPU, and memory speed and timings, it isn't stable. It's a good stress test aswell.
     
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post #24 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Next to being a 100% sure that your OC is stable like others have suggested i have another few pointers about latency on PC's.

First stop using DPC latency checker and use Latencymon.

-You will see TC/IP (network drivers) cause alot of latency, you can try different drivers. (some give off more latency then the other)
-Disabling Hyperthreading will reduce latency by a good amount, but if you really want to disable it is another thing.
-If you have an Nvidia GPU uninstal its driver and see how much it reduces latency (you can re-instal it later)
-Disabeling HPET in Bios can sometimes reduce latency.
-Change CPU power plan in Windows so that your CPU never clocks below 2400mhz, mine used to clock to 800mhz, upping it to 3200mhz reduced latency by alot for me.

If this all doesnt help you can try increasing buffers on your audio players.

Next to that if you now measure low latency, say always under 1000us (dunno how the do micro sign frown.gif ) but still have pops/cracks then it could also be that you have poor or no grounding.

These tips (just tips sadly not 100% solutions) can only be done when you are 100% sure your OC is stable though.

This is quite insightful, thanks!
I will try LatencyMon since it is being suggested so much!
I can't really test without nVidia drivers, because I have latency spikes only when playing games on ultra settings, which isn't something to try without the drivers, or am I mistaken?
I have tried (en/dis)abling hyper threading, HPET, virtualisation, but still was getting crackling audio in games.
When you say "CPU power plan", are you referring to those settings with parking, minimum and maximum processor states? Like these:

I have them all at 100%.

So, the way I was getting those lag spikes, is I start a game, which will run fine for some time, like 15 minutes. Then at some point (not sure when in Witcher3, but in Overwatch it is always the match-end horizontal fire-like animation), I will start getting DPC spikes and audio crackling. From that point, it does not go away for too long, but is definitely not constant. A spike will usually be like 27,000us, while normal latency around 130us.
However, with current OC settings these lag spikes are very occasional and do not seem to ramp up like they used to. I'm going to test with higher voltage soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCmember View Post

Use Asus Real Bench to see if you are stable, also. I find that if Real Bench doesn't read my system properly and report the CPU, and memory speed and timings, it isn't stable. It's a good stress test aswell.
I will try this, thanks.
Might have to wait for my cooler to arrive first, though.
post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
This is what I got in LatencyMon. I rebooted, started LatencyMon and started up Chrome.


The second screen shot is captured during a game running:



I'm not quite sure how to interpret this, but I suppose most latency comes from DirectX dxgkrnl.sys, which is in line with my earlier findings.
However, what's that hard pagefault count? I googled up that it may be indicative of a failing HDD? But my OS is on a rather new SSD. How should I interpret this?
Thanks
Edited by Shoujin - 7/2/16 at 8:03am
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoujin View Post

This is what I got in LatencyMon. I rebooted, started LatencyMon and started up Chrome.


The second screen shot is captured during a game running:



I'm not quite sure how to interpret this, but I suppose most latency comes from DirectX dxgkrnl.sys, which is in line with my earlier findings.
However, what's that hard pagefault count? I googled up that it may be indicative of a failing HDD? But my OS is on a rather new SSD. How should I interpret this?
Thanks

Only look at the first 2 bars.

Hard page fault just works wierd, its wierd with SSD's and more then 1 drive.... dunno why.

Your DirectX driver gives way to much latency, far far more then mine (on mine DX is also the biggest culprit in latency)
I would delete the DX folders and re-instal DX.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Download/confirmation.aspx?id=35


(dont instal the Bing bar wink.gif )


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoujin View Post

This is quite insightful, thanks!
I will try LatencyMon since it is being suggested so much!
I can't really test without nVidia drivers, because I have latency spikes only when playing games on ultra settings, which isn't something to try without the drivers, or am I mistaken?
I have tried (en/dis)abling hyper threading, HPET, virtualisation, but still was getting crackling audio in games.
When you say "CPU power plan", are you referring to those settings with parking, minimum and maximum processor states? Like these:

I have them all at 100%.

So, the way I was getting those lag spikes, is I start a game, which will run fine for some time, like 15 minutes. Then at some point (not sure when in Witcher3, but in Overwatch it is always the match-end horizontal fire-like animation), I will start getting DPC spikes and audio crackling. From that point, it does not go away for too long, but is definitely not constant. A spike will usually be like 27,000us, while normal latency around 130us.
However, with current OC settings these lag spikes are very occasional and do not seem to ramp up like they used to. I'm going to test with higher voltage soon.
I will try this, thanks.
Might have to wait for my cooler to arrive first, though.

In power plan you need to set "minimum processor state" so that it doesnt throttle to far down, 2400mhz should be ok.
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post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farih View Post

Only look at the first 2 bars.

Hard page fault just works wierd, its wierd with SSD's and more then 1 drive.... dunno why.

Your DirectX driver gives way to much latency, far far more then mine (on mine DX is also the biggest culprit in latency)
I would delete the DX folders and re-instal DX.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Download/confirmation.aspx?id=35


(dont instal the Bing bar wink.gif )
In power plan you need to set "minimum processor state" so that it doesnt throttle to far down, 2400mhz should be ok.

I have disabled pagefile completely and it seems to have fixed hard pagefault issue.
[Edit: Well, this was premature. Hard pagefaults are still there.]

Which DirectX folders are you referring to? If I search C drive for "DirectX" I get quite a list: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.AudioVideoPlayback\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.Diagnostics\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3D\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3DX\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.DirectDraw\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.DirectInput\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.DirectPlay\
C:\Windows\assembly\GAC\Microsoft.DirectX.DirectSound\
C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\DirectX for Managed Code\
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\747e5f10f01a56c955193cdb7bb4d5f8\amd64_microsoft-windows-ie-directxtransforms_31bf3856ad364e35_11.2.9600.18349_none_7a2a1fa196a86eb9\
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\747e5f10f01a56c955193cdb7bb4d5f8\wow64_microsoft-windows-ie-directxtransforms_31bf3856ad364e35_11.2.9600.18349_none_847ec9f3cb0930b4\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-d..x-directxdiagnostic_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_81e99da174638311\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-d3d10level9_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_41847221b63220e2\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-d3d10level9_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23432_none_41f63d24cf61fed4\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-d3d10level9_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_329c8355415b5fc3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-d3d10level9_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.23432_none_3366b96a5a48a7a3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d10.1_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_ae4f82d4c031a13b\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d10.1_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_9f6794084b5ae01c\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d10_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_4bad5745e75d0468\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_3ef67c416f74c6e3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d11_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_4dde5445e44ba1a3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d11_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_3ef665796f74e084\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d11_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.18142_none_3f2c41d36f4c909c\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d11_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.22313_none_3fd750928850f311\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-direct3d9_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_207372147765c03a\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-directdraw_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_60fa9493d9b24564\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-directinput_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_798d0be3255fc46e\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-directplay8_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_d6fc8d83d55eb77c\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-directplay8_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17989_none_d6b5e719d592ee62\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-directplay8_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.22150_none_d756c930eea0898c\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-dxgi_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_98a47dc2352c4409\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-dxgi_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_89bc8ef5c05582ea\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-rgbrast_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_d04d147c112aeb20\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.17514_none_4889a9536d4be8c2\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.18946_none_486b2af36d627d80\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23149_none_48f7a0be867d9c91\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.16492_none_39a1ba86f87527a3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.18351_none_39cbca76f855d4a3\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.18516_none_39fc0f64f830dde0\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.18946_none_39dba738f849264f\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.22551_none_3a55692811737194\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.22727_none_3a7bde741155b019\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-warp10_31bf3856ad364e35_7.1.7601.23149_none_3a681d0411644560\
C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-directx-xinput_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_8eecb7d157a38e4d\
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C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\DirectX for Managed Code\1.0.2902.0\Microsoft.DirectX.Diagnostics.dll
C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\DirectX for Managed Code\1.0.2902.0\Microsoft.DirectX.Diagnostics.xml
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C:\Windows\DirectX.log
[Edit: reinstalled DirectX from https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/confirmation.aspx?id=8109 but nothing seems to have changed]


Regarding CPU "minimum processor state", I can only put in percentages. Did you mean to work out the percentage that 2400 would be of the current CPU frequency, or a different setting entirely?
Thanks

[Edit: It looks like increasing CPU voltage really did help with audio crackle, will test more]
Edited by Shoujin - 7/2/16 at 3:13pm
post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoujin View Post

It looks like increasing CPU voltage really did help with audio crackle, will test more]

Please do, I am very interested to see the results.
post #29 of 30

I still say the voltage may be way too low.

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It's a computer!
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Toshiba 3TB P300 
Optical DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
Yesterday it did look like low CPU voltage could cause DPC latency low QPI/VTT voltage could cause boot loops.

Today, I turned the machine on and the OC that worked yesterday also worked fine.
Then I rebooted and got a boot loop. Moreover, when I loaded the same settings that worked, it just refused to accept them and kept boot-looping.

I don't get this : (

I was using:
CPU voltage 1.35
QPI/VTT 1.375
CPU PLL 1.84
DRAM 1.54

Why would it work several times, be fine in memtest and for a couple of hours in prime, show no DPC latency in games, and then suddenly boot-loop on a reboot?
Edited by Shoujin - 7/3/16 at 3:44am
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