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Peltier chilling system - Page 13

post #121 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkubanftw View Post

Alrighty, i'll extend the slots to the full 62mm length and perhaps deepen the plenum into the acrylic.
Haha thanks man. I'm just striving to be successful here! I have a few goals that are on the edge of realistic so we need to push the envelope here everywhere we can and if that means slight changes to design, i'm fine with that. I'm not sure exactly what the channel is inside the china blocks. I've seen a few different pictures that show different things. I can say though i dont think she's hollowed out. I think at best maybe its a rounded W inside there. But i'm leaning more towards It being a pretty small channeled U based on how it performs. The transfer of cold is extremely slow. With no load it took roughly 30 minutes to drop down to the temps i posted. So yeah, it was easy to abandon those guys haha.


There's actually a pretty cool DIY CNC machine package out there that's arduino controlled. Its something i was considering getting one myself. The things i could get done if i had one at home!! I'll see if i can find a link!

Please post a link to that DIY CNC machine package?

I just wanted to share from my own experimentation that the thickness of the copper between the peltier and the coolant can have a detrimental effect on cold transfer to the coolant.

The thinner the copper the faster the transfer, but the copper has to be thick enough not to bend or bow under the clamping pressure.

That is why I would like to have my own CNC machine to try out some designs to replace the blocks I am using.

Just so you are fully aware I am not running my chilled water cooling system sub zero, I am running it below ambient about 15c below ambient to be precise.

So I do not need anti-freeze or protective motherboard insulation.

I am however fully aware that the colder your anti-freeze coolant gets the thicker the viscosity and the harder it becomes to pump, meaning more pump strain and more flow restriction.

In vehicles the anti-freeze viscosity doesn't matter that much because the mechanical pump is driven by a powerful engine, but with computer water cooling pumps the viscosity does matter.
post #122 of 167
don't forget that if your building the blocks there are different types of copper. in fact copper can be made to different hardness's, by changing the physical makeup of the copper. I used to work in a plant that processed copper for lots of stuff, copper can be a soft as lead, or as hard and strong as steel depending on what is added to it. so if you want to make a thin base plate and still have it strong enough to handle the stress of the clamping pressure than you want a hardened copper base material.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper/products/c17200-copper

so I hope this helps in your search for the best material for the base of that block.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper
post #123 of 167
I think C17200 thermal conductivity is really bad, worse than aluminum.
post #124 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

Tool explained it very well and that is what I was referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

Pick a ratio so that it keeps optimal heat transfer characteristics (ie less X1 or XT-1) but enough that the coolant won't turn into a slush or get too viscous for the pumps.

I'd already said you need to use enough anti-freeze of the correct type to prevent the coolant turning into a slush or getting too viscous, it is on the way to freezing, which means not enough or the wrong type of antifreeze was being used. With the temps we run and the correct amount of XT-1 coolant 2 x D5 pumps will be able to push the coolant through a channel design quite easily.

Yeah I would be choosing the copper based around the best heat conductivity rather than it's resistance to bending, resistance to bending can be taken care of with clever block design. ie screws as close to the sides of the TEC as possible, and preferably only 2 screws, and even better if you can keep the screws at the ends of the fins/channels rather than to the sides. Or you can do as US2 does and add a thicker lip to the edge of the copper on the sides of the channels to help prevent warping. It is important to use the correct mounting psi for the TEC, but also crucial that that doesn't ruin your contact with the TEC as you say OC.
post #125 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

don't forget that if your building the blocks there are different types of copper. in fact copper can be made to different hardness's, by changing the physical makeup of the copper. I used to work in a plant that processed copper for lots of stuff, copper can be a soft as lead, or as hard and strong as steel depending on what is added to it. so if you want to make a thin base plate and still have it strong enough to handle the stress of the clamping pressure than you want a hardened copper base material.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper/products/c17200-copper

so I hope this helps in your search for the best material for the base of that block.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper


Yeah you would never want to run Beryllium copper. You want C110 all day and that's what i bought. C110 is 99.90% pure copper and has a thermal conductivity of around 226 Btu · ft/(hr · ft2·oF)at 68F. Beryllium copper is 62 Btu · ft/(hr · ft2·oF)at 68F. I purchased H02 condition.
post #126 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post


I'd already said you need to use enough anti-freeze of the correct type to prevent the coolant turning into a slush or getting too viscous, it is on the way to freezing, which means not enough or the wrong type of antifreeze was being used. With the temps we run and the correct amount of XT-1 coolant 2 x D5 pumps will be able to push the coolant through a channel design quite easily.

Yeah I would be choosing the copper based around the best heat conductivity rather than it's resistance to bending, resistance to bending can be taken care of with clever block design. ie screws as close to the sides of the TEC as possible, and preferably only 2 screws, and even better if you can keep the screws at the ends of the fins/channels rather than to the sides. Or you can do as US2 does and add a thicker lip to the edge of the copper on the sides of the channels to help prevent warping. It is important to use the correct mounting psi for the TEC, but also crucial that that doesn't ruin your contact with the TEC as you say OC.

Liam, I was not arguing against any point you had made, I am late getting to this thread a lot has been covered since the beginning of it, OK?
post #127 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

don't forget that if your building the blocks there are different types of copper. in fact copper can be made to different hardness's, by changing the physical makeup of the copper. I used to work in a plant that processed copper for lots of stuff, copper can be a soft as lead, or as hard and strong as steel depending on what is added to it. so if you want to make a thin base plate and still have it strong enough to handle the stress of the clamping pressure than you want a hardened copper base material.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper/products/c17200-copper

so I hope this helps in your search for the best material for the base of that block.

http://www.nbmmetals.com/collections/beryllium-copper

That's a very good point Tool!

I had not considered that various alloys added to the original base of copper changes it's hardness value, but also increasing the hardness value, can actually change it's thermal conductivity as well.
post #128 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

That's a very good point Tool!

I had not considered that various alloys added to the original base of copper changes it's hardness value, but also increasing the hardness value, can actually change it's thermal conductivity as well.

yes, I was not trying to tell the guy to use beryllium copper but that is how he took it.

the magicool blocks I am using have a 3mm base on them, and that base is not C110 copper, it is a hardened alloy, if it was not a hardened alloy at that thickness, it would have tweaked under the pressure needed to hold the TEC's. also it took me 6 days to sand them, if they where C110 copper they would had been done in a day, copper is rather soft.

I was hoping that he would read through all of the alloys, and find one that will give him the strength he needs, while at the same time providing good thermal transfer.
nothing in life is a win, win, but if he had looked, he would have found that nice medium.

the reality is that for the blocks to be made strong enough for TEC's, out of C110 copper, the base will need to be in the area of 10mm thick. I have 3mm thick base plates made out of a copper alloy.

I am willing to say that is the thermal conductivity of a 10mm C110 base, if compared to the thermal conductivity of a 3mm alloy base, that the 3mm base will win that contest. I do not know what alloy magicool used, but I am willing to bet that there choice had more to do with cost, and not a lot to do with thermal conductivity.

with this build, he could put more of a emphasis on thermal conductivity, the cost will most likely be a little greater that of C110 copper, but he would be able to make the base plate a lot thinner, and that has it own amount of thermal advantages to it.
Edited by toolmaker03 - 8/21/16 at 6:44am
post #129 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

yes, I was not trying to tell the guy to use beryllium copper but that is how he took it.

the magicool blocks I am using have a 3mm base on them, and that base is not C110 copper, it is a hardened alloy, if it was not a hardened alloy at that thickness, it would have tweaked under the pressure needed to hold the TEC's. also it took me 6 days to sand them, if they where C110 copper they would had been done in a day, copper is rather soft.

I was hoping that he would read through all of the alloys, and find one that will give him the strength he needs, while at the same time providing good thermal transfer.
nothing in life is a win, win, but if he had looked, he would have found that nice medium.

I thought you were just suggesting options.
post #130 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmaker03 View Post

yes, I was not trying to tell the guy to use beryllium copper but that is how he took it.

the magicool blocks I am using have a 3mm base on them, and that base is not C110 copper, it is a hardened alloy, if it was not a hardened alloy at that thickness, it would have tweaked under the pressure needed to hold the TEC's. also it took me 6 days to sand them, if they where C110 copper they would had been done in a day, copper is rather soft.

I was hoping that he would read through all of the alloys, and find one that will give him the strength he needs, while at the same time providing good thermal transfer.
nothing in life is a win, win, but if he had looked, he would have found that nice medium.

the reality is that for the blocks to be made strong enough for TEC's, out of C110 copper, the base will need to be in the area of 10mm thick. I have 3mm thick base plates made out of a copper alloy.

I am willing to say that is the thermal conductivity of a 10mm C110 base, if compared to the thermal conductivity of a 3mm alloy base, that the 3mm base will win that contest. I do not know what alloy magicool used, but I am willing to bet that there choice had more to do with cost, and not a lot to do with thermal conductivity.

with this build, he could put more of a emphasis on thermal conductivity, the cost will most likely be a little greater that of C110 copper, but he would be able to make the base plate a lot thinner, and that has it own amount of thermal advantages to it.


I think you're greatly missing the point. I am using c110. Which has the highest thermal conductivity hence why I used it. I'm not sure where you are pulling this 10mm baseline number from but it's simply not true and a tougher baseplate is simply not required. HOW you clamp the copper will make all the difference.
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