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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 103  

post #1021 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I think the real lesson here is that GPUs named "480" are firebombs waiting to happen. thumb.gif
Thats right folks you read it first here on OCN from Cynicalunicorn that AMD is manufacturing terrorist GPU to be used to burn down peoples homes.
News flash it has just been discovered that the RX480 was responsible for this. Thanks to Max Coleman a distant relative of Cynical for telling us what really happened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKbbV8YL60g
post #1022 of 1129
False. Pin 5 needs a ground provided by plugging in the 6 pin for power. If pin 5 was grounded through the PCIe slot, then the card would post without any extra power cables installed. thumb.gif
post #1023 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777ESS View Post

False. Pin 5 needs a ground provided by plugging in the 6 pin for power. If pin 5 was grounded through the PCIe slot, then the card would post without any extra power cables installed. thumb.gif

sorry but it's true. start the run to the beer store. heres one (albeit underage) guy you owe a case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plC7tOYIqBw

in the video you see him measure ohms between 4,5 and 6. wink.gif



don't feel bad, i had thought the two grounds were separate.

the card won't post w/only half the VRMs. thumb.gif

btw, this was discussed earlier in this same thread. biggrin.gif
Edited by looniam - 7/6/16 at 5:40pm
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post #1024 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by andydabeast View Post

OH, yes that does. Even if I combine ten 8pin connectors all into that 6pin, the gpu still thinks it is a 6pin.

On the flip side though, If the card is drawing power over the spec for 6pin, then would it not still be better to have a more robust 6pin? I guess PSU's are generally overbuilt so the bottleneck for power delivery is the pci-e anyway... Thanks for explaining.

Each pin of a 6/8 pin connector is rated at 8 or 9 amps, depending on which spec sheet you look at. That's close to 200W for 6-pin. The slot pin rating is lower and matches the PCIe spec on that side.
post #1025 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

sorry but it's true. start the run to the beer store. heres one (albeit underage) guy you owe a case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plC7tOYIqBw

in the video you see him measure ohms between 4,5 and 6. wink.gif



don't feel bad, i had thought the two grounds were separate.

the card won't post w/only half the VRMs. thumb.gif

btw, this was discussed earlier in this same thread. biggrin.gif

I lost count how many times the 6 pin power has been discussed and how poeple keep debating the grounds and whatnot.
post #1026 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagget3450 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
sorry but it's true. start the run to the beer store. heres one (albeit underage) guy you owe a case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plC7tOYIqBw

in the video you see him measure ohms between 4,5 and 6. wink.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


don't feel bad, i had thought the two grounds were separate.

the card won't post w/only half the VRMs. thumb.gif

btw, this was discussed earlier in this same thread. biggrin.gif

I lost count how many times the 6 pin power has been discussed and how poeple keep debating the grounds and whatnot.

oh its only HALF the discussion. before it was how much or what the 6 pin connector from the PSU could do. now its about the 6 pin on the card.
so please allow me to get yo up to speed. biggrin.gif

people are freaking out about the sense pin being grounded. well i ran across a reddit post (maybe need a salt shaker?)
Quote:
The same spec says that the implementation of Sense is to have it connect to GND in the PSU or connector.
The idea would be that you design a circuit that measures if Sense is either high resistance (no connector) or GND (connector plugged).
There is nothing that prohibits you from using the Sense Pin as a real GND source. You would just have to gather the information if a connector is plugged otherwise and not by comparing Sense to GND, which isn't really a big deal to handle in another way.

so how would it gather information? well since half the vrms are pci-e and the other half the 6 pin.
Actually Hardcore Overclocking - The road to voltage Fury.
Quote:
The first thing I learned about the IR 3567B is that it's pretty smart. So smart, that the damn thing will not let the card run if it doesn't sense current on the VRM phases. With most GPU voltage controllers you cut the power sensing lines and they just ignore the fact that the current reading of 0.8A is wrong and continue running the VRM like nothing's changed. Not the IR 3567B, no the IR 3567B shuts the card down if it sense 0A on the phases.

the ironic part is that blog is the same guy who started this sense pin ground thing as out of spec in his twitch stream.

lachen.gif
Edited by looniam - 7/6/16 at 6:49pm
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post #1027 of 1129
The sense pins on the power connectors shouldn't be ground though, right? Wouldn't they be on a pullup resistor to be brought low when the ground is connected? I would think the sense pins would be high-impedance by design. If they were shorted to ground, the card would think a connector is there all the time.

Point being, the sense lines are never meant to carry meaningful current. I know we've talked about the 2 vs 3 current pairs before on the connectors.
post #1028 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

The sense pins on the power connectors shouldn't be ground though, right? Wouldn't they be on a pullup resistor to be brought low when the ground is connected? I would think the sense pins would be high-impedance by design. If they were shorted to ground, the card would think a connector is there all the time.

Point being, the sense lines are never meant to carry meaningful current. I know we've talked about the 2 vs 3 current pairs before on the connectors.

Most likely yes, though because they are the same wire gauge as the grounds and are connected to PSU ground, they technically have the same current capacity as a normal ground connection whether or not they are supposed to be used for such or not. Either way, a 6 pin has 2 +12v connections in its spec and 2 ground connections (plus sense to ground), an 8 pin has 3 +12v connections and 3 grounds (plus 2 sense), so whether the sense wires are used for a real ground or not there are already an equal number of ground wires to power wires and thus the sense pins dont need to be used as all existing wires can already carry current correctly and equally. Simply sending power back down the sense pins doesn't let you use more power, as you are still limited by the capacity of the +12v lines themselves regardless. The only time I could see it making sense to make use of a sense wire for returning current in a circuit is if a GPU did not conform to PCI-E 6-pin spec and instead was designed to draw from a 3rd +12v wire on the 6 pin. Most PSUs have that 3rd wire available, it just isnt supposed to be used on a 6-pin connection. But *if* it were used, then the sense would also probably be used so as to make use of 3 +12v and 3 ground to get full current capability. But again, that isnt how the PCI-E spec is set up, and I dont think AMD or Nvidia could actually design a GPU to expect to be using that 3rd wire on a 6 pin, if they did I dont think it would pass PCI-SIG spec and qualification and I think there would be compatibility issues in quite a few PCs.
Edited by EniGma1987 - 7/7/16 at 6:25am
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post #1029 of 1129
Probably shouldn't get sidetracked too much on these pinouts but more about what exactly can be done with AMD violating PCI-SIG spec. Has anyone on reddit found any answers yet? I am really worried about how many people will suffer if they aren't educated about this issue. This is super scary stuff, AMD cannot be allowed to Violate PCI-SIG specification! I was super shocked when this was discovered and brought to our attention. AMD Violating PCI-SIG specification is detrimental to the PC community as a whole. When AMD violates PCI-SIG specifications they are lowering the standards of all hardware manufacturers industry. I personally am ashamed AMD violated PCI-SIG specifications and they better fix it within 3 months!

I'll keep my eye glued to reddit for answers on why AMD violated PCI-SIG specifications. I also saw a new thread where someone lost a motherboard when the AMD GPU wasn't even under a load!!!
http://www.overclock.net/t/1605102/amd-rx-480-bricked-my-motherboard-coincidence
post #1030 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

The sense pins on the power connectors shouldn't be ground though, right? Wouldn't they be on a pullup resistor to be brought low when the ground is connected? I would think the sense pins would be high-impedance by design. If they were shorted to ground, the card would think a connector is there all the time.

Point being, the sense lines are never meant to carry meaningful current. I know we've talked about the 2 vs 3 current pairs before on the connectors.

though i am sure you are talking about the sense pin on the card; the specs do state the sense pin on the connector (#5) from the PSU is grounded to the PSU: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

but there is nothing that i see specifying the connection of the sense pin(s) on the card.

since supposedly the the sense pin is used to measure resistance if there is a connection but the voltage controller (IR 3567B), unlike other controllers(!), can determine if all the vrms are energized; it could be redundant to have both features. so instead of the sense pin being used to determine if there is an auxiliary connection, the IR 3567B knows and can operate the card as required (on/off).
Edited by looniam - 7/7/16 at 6:47am
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