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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 26  

post #251 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfromcolo View Post

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Overclocking-Current-Testing

A comprehensive review of the issue.  Excuse if this has been posted before, I didn't recall seeing it mentioned here.

I wonder when AMD will try to sweep this under the carpet debunk it as FUD.
post #252 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robenger View Post

Me questioning your logical fallacy is clearly cheering for AMD.

Why don't you question the fallacy of AMD assuming that just because 2 sites (at the moment of their comment that have found that out) have shown that, no other reviewer did encounter that?
post #253 of 1129
Interesting note, look at other reviews. Appears this behavior was seen with the other cards for some time and no one commented. The Strix 960 showed power spikes as high as 200 watts over the PCIe in the same test by Tom's Hardware but it was never mentioned.

A new Thread on Reddit is stating that according the PCIe specifications for PCIe 3.0 the 75 watt limit is the default not the actual limit. The lsot is supposed to be rated to as high as 300 watts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4qmlep/rx_480_powergate_problem_has_a_solution/

Could this be a mountain being made out of a molehill?
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post #254 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

nice try to divert attention from a major design flaw.

 

No diversion attempt at all. Simply putting things into perspective. A micro USB 2.0 connector is less electrically sound per finger/sping pair than a PCIe connector, yet we push on a daily basis 2, 3 and 4 times as much current through them (and through those minute gauge cables in USB cables, which are hardly any thicker at all than PCIe power traces on a motherboard).

 

But you can choose to selectively ignore facts dissing them as diversion attempts, as is the norm in the news section. Your right to.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCGamer4Ever View Post

Interesting note, look at other reviews. Appears this behavior was seen with the other cards for some time and no one commented. The Strix 960 showed power spikes as high as 200 watts over the PCIe in the same test by Tom's Hardware but it was never mentioned.

A new Thread on Reddit is stating that according the PCIe specifications for PCIe 3.0 the 75 watt limit is the default not the actual limit. The lsot is supposed to be rated to as high as 300 watts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4qmlep/rx_480_powergate_problem_has_a_solution/

Could this be a mountain being made out of a molehill?

 

No different to USB being rated for 500mA, yet they extended, without changing the mechanical connection specification at all, the current ratings to 1.8A in 2011.

 

All it means is that if a PCIe-connected device blows up traces on a motherboard that were specced for the design guidelines the motherboard manufacturers aren't to blame, but the manufacturer of the device in question.

 

The actual rating of said interface is as you said, likely several times what the minimum current capabilities are.


Edited by Artikbot - 6/30/16 at 3:16pm
   
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post #255 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolfail9001 View Post

Why don't you question the fallacy of AMD assuming that just because 2 sites (at the moment of their comment that have found that out) have shown that, no other reviewer did encounter that?

Because of burden of proof.
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post #256 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by andydabeast View Post

I am literally making my individually sleeved cables this weekend and have a RX 480 in the mail. Would it break everything, do nothing, or help if I made a 6pin with all 8 wires going into it? so-

8pin #4 -> pair with 6pin #5
8pin #8 -> pair with 6pin #6 (or #4)



http://www.overclock.net/a/gpu-and-cpu-power-connections

Using 16 gauge wire fyi
not at home atm but if I remember correctly only 7 of the pins are on my psu side of the AX860 cable

To answer your question, I wouldn't splice 8 into 6. You still only have the 6 pin leads on the board side of the connection going into the voltage delivery system of the card. What you are talking of doing would only increase the risk of shorting/damaging your card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellybeans69 View Post

From sapphires own page - 13580567_10154409365799430_64806124626963941_o.jpg

Confirmation of a DVI port thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfromcolo View Post

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Overclocking-Current-Testing

A comprehensive review of the issue.  Excuse if this has been posted before, I didn't recall seeing it mentioned here.

Good read, thank you.
IMO it seems like a software issue, ie vBIOS bug or misconfiguration. Here's why it seems that way to me. We know the 6 pin connector is capable of providing well over the 75w of the pcie spec. Others have provided proof/past examples of that, I won't get into that. But it appears the card is pulling the extra voltage from the slot instead of the pcie connection. Maybe the voltage limit protocol is assigned to the wrong entry/path. Instead of the limiting the slot current it's limiting the connector instead. Sorry I'm on mobile and can't distinguish the lines of the graph in the pcper article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

Thank you for sharing this. Sad that AMD tried to claim this was a rare occurrence because so many reviews failed to mention it. The real reason is because so few tested it at all.

Yep, I'm sure at AMD's secret hideout they were all like DAMN!! We would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for them meddling kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

It could have been verified when AMD had a lower-clocked, or even referenced clock-ed card tested. PCI-SIG testing, AFAIK, doesn't cover overclocking requirements.

Don't you really mean to say that few reviewers were able to measure PCI-E power draw? Not everyone has that kind of equipment on hand.

As for the information from that document, it's over 800 pages long. There's so much information available that finding anything that actually tells us what's going on here is going to take a very, very long time. It might be better to ignore those numbers and work off the PCI-E Electromechanical specification.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
http://download.csdn.net/detail/jianjunzaixian/9229521

I've pasted the relevant pages for everyone to read.








As you can see, at no point is the PCI-E slot ever officially given more than 75W of power to work with. Both the board and GPU need to adhere to that spec while making use of aux inputs to make up the difference. 

The average draw of the GTX 750 Ti was below 75W, which is expected. The average of the RX 480, as measured in that graph, is 80W. That should not be the case, and the RX 480 is overdrawing on the PCI-E specification most of the time.

I mean, sure, there's provision for drawing 81W, at a stretch, if you're abusing the tolerances as much as you can and guessing that the board can handle it and doesn't have cheap caps, which is what AMD is doing here. I can see why they're doing it this way, but it's not the most ideal way to go about this. Slapping on an 8-pin connector would have rendered this all a non-issue.

I meant it the way I wrote it. That's what I remembered seeing in that AMA Reddit chatter. I was frustrated though that no one bothered to even do a little bit of checking, instead it was "oh nos, the computers are going to explode. Houses will burn zomg"
I did quote though and give the page number to narrow down the 800+ pages information. Which I was able to find within an hour of reading this thread at the beginning. I was hoping that others might be more familiar with the document and be able to chime in such as you did. Thank you for that.

I also didn't get a chance to reply in the review thread and I had intended to, that your review was a good read, again thank you, I will have to look more at your site when I have a chance. +rep.
post #257 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

I wonder when AMD will try to sweep this under the carpet debunk it as FUD.
where did pcper suddenly was able to find a profiler bracket? did nvidia lend them to them?
post #258 of 1129
Not everything is a conspiracy man.
post #259 of 1129
I am kinda of glad this happened, they should have released the card with 2 six pin connectors if meant more performance. In my book performance trumps power consumption in almost every scenario. The good news is that its clear that the card has a lot more to give with more juice, I hope the AIB's open this bad boy up.
    
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post #260 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klocek001 View Post

nice try to divert attention from a major design flaw.

Two reviews point it out, no concrete evidence that is some wide spread problem= Huge design flaw. Derp
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