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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 44  

post #431 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Hawaii is also ROP limited and it lacks the memory compression and the bigger L2 cache. Gcn4 helps the card to reach the performance of 64 rops but still it's weak compared to nvidia performance.
Hawaii? you mean fiji?
post #432 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCheapo View Post

How would it ensure that power would solely be pulled from the connectors and not from the PCI-E slot at all? And wouldn't the same board change required to facilitate the 8 plug or twin 6 plug power inputs be able to fix the single 6 pin's distribution issues while maintaining the single 6 plug design? Is there no way around it at this power level? This is pretty intriguing.

I'm wondering if the bios is limiting the draw on the 6 pin to spec but not the pci-e lane and that is getting the extra draw instead of throttling. It has to be a bios screwup, easily fixed AFAIK. Power supplies should limit the draw on specific circuits in reality.
post #433 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCheapo View Post

How would it ensure that power would solely be pulled from the connectors and not from the PCI-E slot at all? And wouldn't the same board change required to facilitate the 8 plug or twin 6 plug power inputs be able to fix the single 6 pin's distribution issues while maintaining the single 6 plug design? Is there no way around it at this power level? This is pretty intriguing.

Simply plugging in more things will not help. The VRM is likely designed with specific phases powered from specific sources. In which case, simply adding more connectors alone will not help. You would have to cut traces on the board and re-wire them to another input.
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post #434 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

Hawaii is also ROP limited and it lacks the memory compression and the bigger L2 cache. Gcn4 helps the card to reach the performance of 64 rops but still it's weak compared to nvidia performance.

Its more likely TMU limited. TMU's are mainly what feeds the compute engine and deal with geometry. Especially seeing as the one similarity between Hawaii and Polaris is the TMU count.
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post #435 of 1129
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Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

I think AMD are in no position financially to afford major architectural improvements and this is visible from GCN4 vs earlier GCN versions. I was also surprised that AMD went with 32 ROPs for a GPU with as much FLOPS as R9 390X. AMD claims 15% perf/CU increase due to architectural improvements and with another 20% clock speed increase over R9 390X they should be very close to Fury perf. But here they are at R9 390 perf or even lesser depending on resolution. I think Vega is also just minor revision with HBM2 and memory controller changes over the minor architectural improvements that Polaris brought. Its now highly unlikely that a 4096 sp Vega can even match a GTX 1080 as GTX 1080 is around 80-85% faster than Rx 480. Even a pure doubling of Polaris (which includes shader and geometry engines, TMU,ROPs) would normally get you only 80-85% perf increase. But I doubt AMD have the die and power budget to double Polaris 10 completely. Right now I think AMD is just dead and cannot compete against Nvidia / Intel especially when they are shackled with GF and the WSA.

I agree. It doesn't seem like AMD did much with GCN > Polaris.

A 15% performance increase per CU is nowhere near good enough of an increase from a 4-5 year old architecture. This is part of the reason why I think Polaris' perf/watt is so poor; AMD struggles to get all of their CUs utilized properly due to front end deficiencies so they compensate that by adding in more CUs. The 1070 has 384 less shader processors than the RX 480 but it demolishes it in performance.

NVIDIA is very good at getting more performance out of their shader processors, and thats part of the reason why they are so good at making efficient cards. When you can achieve more performance with the same amount of shader processors by making sure they are utilized more rather than just having more of them, you have less shader processors that you need to power to make a really powerful card. Unfortunately, you need a lot of money to really increase performance per core in GPUs.
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post #436 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubeman View Post

Posting here since i've posted else where.

I have 3 480's setup in Crossfire on my Rampage IV Extreme. The XFX card draws more wattage (And by default has a higher clock then the rest of the cards). After running 3dmark (First thing i did with the 3 card together) I lost my audio ports. Reading elsewhere audio would be the first thing affected.

Rampages IV have had reported audio issues in the past in-which maybe the cards triggered, or the cards did itself by pulling a crazy amount of wattage.

Later ill be removing one card when i get home hoping my audio port comes back, If not submitting RMA on the XFX card since it was the last one to be installed before losing audio.

So it was an xfx. The XFX models, if you bought the 1328mhz model likely consumes 100watts via the pci express slot and that's a no no. So I it likely was your cards fault.
post #437 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Simply plugging in more things will not help. The VRM is likely designed with specific phases powered from specific sources. In which case, simply adding more connectors alone will not help. You would have to cut traces on the board and re-wire them to another input.

That may be so but (I don't know for sure) I would think there is a fail over circuit for overloads.
post #438 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Its more likely TMU limited. TMU's are mainly what feeds the compute engine and deal with geometry. Especially seeing as the one similarity between Hawaii and Polaris is the TMU count.

Almost all the GCN flagships were ROP limited depending the shader.

With a simple custom pixel shader when i was testing the GCN architecture for console development 7970 was ROP limited instead of bandwidth. It was a simple vertex and fragment shader with 32-bit texture.
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post #439 of 1129
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Originally Posted by Hueristic View Post

That may be so but (I don't know for sure) I would think there is a fail over circuit for overloads.

Not when the spec states that both sources are effectively equal. It is designed around having equal capacity on each connection, so power draw at each location will be similar. More expensive VRM control circuits exist to do that, but they would likely not fit into the budget of this board.
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post #440 of 1129
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Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

So it was an xfx. The XFX models, if you bought the 1328mhz model likely consumes 100watts via the pci express slot and that's a no no. So I it likely was your cards fault.

Stock cards are limited by power target out of the box, I dont think that overclock is going to mean anything since it would never reach it at stock anyways.
 
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