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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 58  

post #571 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

PCIe slot power transmission to card is only limited to 75w IF THE CARD HAS NO POWER CABLE ATTACHED. The slot lacks the superior ground necessary to provide a higher wattage.

Most cards on the market today pull up in the 80/90 range and it's well within spec if you have a PCIe power cable connected to the graphics card.

The addition of the power cable allows a much much higher power draw through the x16 slots. The x8 slots however are more heavily limited and while some cards CAN run in x4 slots, they often will refuse to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilon View Post

This is the worst explanation I've heard so far... well maybe not as bad as that guy that was convinced the PCI-E slot can deliver 300W.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Pinout

The slot is mostly ground.

The reason why it's max 66W sustained on +12V is because there are only 5 12V pins on the socket and they're only rated to 5.5A total.

forget it. he keeps getting told he is wrong but still continues; its even in the specs that the two sources are completely independent of each other:



here-have the specs the PCI-SIG charges $2K for w/o a membership ($50 if you are):

PCIe_225_300W_14Mar08.zip 700k .zip file
Edited by looniam - 7/2/16 at 7:04am
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post #572 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433925.msg15438155#msg15438155



This is the worst case scenario, three cards mining.

wasnt using powered risers.
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post #573 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

That should have been caught during design.

Indeed, it should have been!
Problem here is either a general problem not noticed during the design phase AKA "flawed design" or an issue with the immature 14nm GF process node. In the worst case for AMD, it is a bad mix of both. Same happened to Nvidia with their GTX480. Difference is the card had enough raw power to be competitive. The RX480 on the other hand is quite weak for it's class. Pricewise it is a wondercard ... actually ... no its not - here in Europe we have to pay 269-288€ for this flawed reference model.

I am shocked about how many "experts" here dismiss potential damage from overbearing the PCIe-SLOT powerage.
This is by fare the worst example of potential damage that can ever happen. By experience I can tell that this is a very serious issue.

All the power circuits come together near the first and second PCIE-SLOT. Depending on the design of the board, other onboard components share parts of the ressources. if this sensible area is stressed to much over a long period, it will surely effect the other stuff too.

Examples are:
-bad / broken Network chips
-sound issues / no sound
-burn / damage of PCI-Express-SLOT
-disfunctioning USB-Hubs
-trouble with RAM-Slots
-burned mainboard components (transistors, conductors a.s.o)

The are all typical RMA issues to replace your board. Then you curse the vendor while actually it is a misdesigned graphics card.... so dramatic if you ask me. At best the mainboard has security mechanisms and shuts down. Try to find this issue while being on the machine. This behavior would drive you crazy as the person to repair the PC. We would change every component and then wonder why maybe the PC works again after changing the graphics card. That means, if there have been no permanent defects already.
post #574 of 1129
Thread Starter 
New video up from PCPer talking about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjAlrGzHAkI

While it's a bit long, it covers EVERYTHING you need to know and makes a whole bunch of valid points and talks about potential fixes. It also talks about the differences between the problem with the AMD RX 480 and cards like the NVidia 950, 960, and 970Ti and how the RX 480 problem is way worse. I watched the whole thing, but if not, watch about 4 minutes starting at the 8 minute mark for the crux of the major issue ... also maybe the last 3 minutes.
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post #575 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433925.msg15438155#msg15438155



This is the worst case scenario, three cards mining.

User also underclocked the cards.
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post #576 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearPeace View Post

User also underclocked the cards.
User also had 3 cards mining, which is almost 20 amps of current through two tiny little 12v pins.
post #577 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433925.msg15438155#msg15438155



This is the worst case scenario, three cards mining.

I had this exact damage happen to me years ago, but it wasn't amd it was nvidia gtx480 in quad sli. It was my fault also because i didnt use pcie aux power. I guess i should pretend it was nvidias fault though.
post #578 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

I've been given feedback by the PCI-SIG engineers. I'll have the full reply up in an article later, but basically this is a non-issue as far as they're concerned. Their conformance tests only apply as far as being able to use the PCI-E branding on the box and being included in the list of approved systems integrators, and they don't impose limits on how far outside the standard a licensed product can go when overclocked.

However, there's an interesting point to the feedback I received - you can absolutely make a GPU that conforms to most of the PCI-E specifications, but you're not actually required to adhere or even implement any part of the spec. Hence, we have the Radeon R9 295X2 or HD 7990, overdrawing on the auxiliary power because the expectation is that you're going to be using a really overbuilt, beefy PSU to run that system.

Overdrawing on the PSU is not a problem, PCI-SIG don't care. The RX 480 was probably tested and validated at stock speeds, which makes sense because AMD doesn't actually support overclocking and neither do its partners.

I'll assume you wrote the last part incorrectly.

If PCISig aren't concerned in terms of how this impacts their certification that's fine and reduces the problems AMD could deal with but going over the physical limits isn't something that should be ignored. Those amperage maximums mean that the 480 increases the risk of shorting them out over anything else put in that slot.
post #579 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Joule is the measure of instantaneous power.

A watt is defined as 1 joule/second, so it includes a time dimension.

Still, "watts per second" is wrong, but the same argument *might* hold true if interpreted as joules/second - or, simply, watts tongue.gif

teaching.gif

Your assertion is incorrect. The watt is a rate precisely because it is defined that way. The joule is a volume because it is defined as a certain number of electrons and implies no motion. Only a rate can be used to measure instantaneous power. Volume cannot.

One watt per second would be equivalent to "one joule per second per second" which implies a curve. He was not talking about a curve so this is irrelevant.
post #580 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagget3450 View Post

I had this exact damage happen to me years ago, but it wasn't amd it was nvidia gtx480 in quad sli. It was my fault also because i didnt use pcie aux power. I guess i should pretend it was nvidias fault though.

Well, he was running 3 R9 280's prior to this happening. And didn't the R9 280 have a higher TDP than the RX480 or am I missing something?
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