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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 64  

post #631 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Because it proves that this whole deal have been ignited just because its AMD.

The GTX 950 have sold 10 times more than what the RX 480 probably will in this quarter yet no eyebrows were raised when the tests showed the GTX 950 spiking way above the 75W the motherboard PCIe slow was rated for, so why is this issue finally coming to light now? Why not before?

Ignorance is not the reason as the tests were there, proving how much those cards spiked above the 75W the motherboard was rated, it's just that nobody cared because Nvidia.

Whats the point of shifting all attention into one card that presents an issue that 90% of current and past cards present?
Not that I care too much, I have no intention of buying a mid-range card, but the 960 strix isn't that bad: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Evaluating-ASUS-GTX-960-Strix

The 480 is probably going to damage some people's hardware unless they release a fix, it consistently draws 25-50% over spec depending on whether it is overclocked or stock.

This shouldn't be an NV vs AMD thing, it has nothing to do with NV and chances are AMD will come up with a fix anyway. The fact that this has become a fan boy war shows how incredibly toxic these forums have become.
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post #632 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Not that I care too much, I have no intention of buying a mid-range card, but the 960 strix isn't that bad: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480/Evaluating-ASUS-GTX-960-Strix

The 480 is probably going to damage some people's hardware unless they release a fix, it consistently draws 25-50% over spec depending on whether it is overclocked or stock.

This shouldn't be an NV vs AMD thing, it has nothing to do with NV and chances are AMD will come up with a fix anyway. The fact that this has become a fan boy war shows how incredibly toxic these forums have become.



Just from the PCIe Motherboard slot alone without counting for the 6 pin connector, so what were you saying?

Every card spike pull more than 75W from the motherboard PCIe X16 slot, the real question is... Why was this never an issue until now?

Ironically, now that it finally became an issue it just had to happen with a card that could only spike up to 140W instead of the 225W the GTX 960 could back when it was not an issue arrowheadsmiley.png
Edited by Dargonplay - 7/2/16 at 6:13pm
post #633 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post



Just from the PCIe Motherboard slot alone without counting for the 6 pin connector, so what were you saying?
Yeah, PCPer retested it in response to those exact results. Guessing you didn't read the link?
Quote:
So there you have it - while I cannot say for certain that NO previous graphics card in recent memory hasn't behaved in the same fashion that the new AMD Radeon RX 480 does, I can categorically discount the notion that the ASUS GTX 960 Strix is somehow equivalent in its power delivery. I know that many of you still look at the spike wattage output numbers provided by the Tom's Hardware testing methods, but I encourage you to re-read what I posted on the first page of this story:

One interesting note on our data compared to what Tom’s Hardware presents – we are using a second order low pass filter to smooth out the data to make it more readable and more indicative of how power draw is handled by the components on the PCB. Tom’s story reported “maximum” power draw at 300 watts for the RX 480 and while that is technically accurate, those figures represent instantaneous power draw. That is interesting data in some circumstances, and may actually indicate other potential issues with excessively noisy power circuitry, but to us, it makes more sense to sample data at a high rate (10 kHz) but to filter it and present it more readable way that better meshes with the continuous power delivery capabilities of the system.

Some gamers have expressed concern over that “maximum” power draw of 300 watts on the RX 480 that Tom’s Hardware reported. While that power measurement is technically accurate, it doesn’t represent the continuous power draw of the hardware. Instead, that measure is a result of a high frequency data acquisition system that may take a reading at the exact moment that a power phase on the card switches. Any DC switching power supply that is riding close to a certain power level is going to exceed that on the leading edges of phase switches for some minute amount of time. This is another reason why our low pass filter on power data can help represent real-world power consumption accurately. That doesn’t mean the spikes they measure are not a potential cause for concern, that’s just not what we are focused on with our testing.

And that's what I mean by toxic, you are the living embodiment of confirmation bias. Illogically arguing a point and ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

And besides, an NV AIB damaging people's hardware isn't even relevant. Sure, if true I'd hope that word spread so that any whose system failed could start chasing Asus for compensation but it has no bearing on the fact that the 480 is doing it now.
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post #634 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

So, now that its been proven that a Nvidia GTX 960 can draw more than 200W from the PCIe motherboard slot alone you get bored.

Not only that you want everyone to focus on the RX 480 instead of the GTX 960?

Classy.

It's because you and many others do not understand the technical differences between the GTX960 case and the RX480 one. The 2GB ASUS 960 STRIX just "violates" the PCI-Express-6-pin Connector. That is not a real issue, because those cables can manage many more times as they are specified. Cards like the AMD 295x2 do this quite severe. The GTX960 does the same, but leaves the PCI-Slot out of this and stays in specification there.

Spikes do not matter by the way. Every single electronic devices in a PC has power spikes. Important are the averages and over what time period this happends. The Rx480 does constantly violate the tolerance levels of the mainboard PCiE-SLOT at STOCK (!). This can damage your hardware. This is why everyone is so agitated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Because it proves that this whole deal have been ignited just because its AMD.

Nobody cares if it's AMD or whoever except the apologists! We would be equally on the fence if it were a product of Intel, Nvidia or any other vendor. Yet just because it is AMD, the usual fanboy squad senses are tingling. You know the same idiots who hyped this very card into heaven. Right now these folks are in full damage control mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

The GTX 950 have sold 10 times more than what the RX 480 probably will in this quarter yet no eyebrows were raised when the tests showed the GTX 950 spiking way above the 75W the motherboard PCIe slow was rated for, so why is this issue finally coming to light now? Why not before?

Again:
"Because power spikes are irrelevant to the topic."

Learn the difference, god damit! Neither the GTX950 nor the 960 are even similar to the RX480 case. PCPer even explained it for the uneducated people (=outside of subject). Neither the 3.3V nor the 12V parts of the powerline are violated like the RX480.

Here is the link for the whole article (video is there too):
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Power-Consumption-Concerns-Radeon-RX-480

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Ignorance is not the reason as the tests were there, proving how much those cards spiked above the 75W the motherboard was rated, it's just that nobody cared because Nvidia.

If you ever educate yourself what is really going on, you will do a big facepalm about this sentence. Please inform yourself and don't deny what you get presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Whats the point of shifting all attention into one card that presents an issue that 90% of current and past cards present?

Nobody shifts anything, expect the guys in denial of what is really going on. In fact 99.9% of all graphic cards out there are fine. The RX480 is the only exception. It has way too much Ampere running. At the same time the used voltages are too high too. Last one is not the main problem, but an additional factor. AMD needs to get the Ampere usage under control. Several sites mention that AMD promised to fix that in an upcoming driver / firmwareupdate.

sources (Google site translator):

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fht4u.net%2Fnews%2F32190_amd_will_die_radeon_rx_480-probleme_per_treiberupdate_loesen%2F


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2Fnews%2Fradeon-rx-480-amd-will-zu-hohe-ampere-werte-per-treiber-update-angehen-1607-121888.html&sandbox=1
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 7/2/16 at 6:24pm
post #635 of 1129
Afther waching the stream of builzoid the conclution that came with him making some test was that the pcb of the rx480 is a mess.
3 VRM and the chip are powered by the 6 pin and the other 3 VRM and the vram are powered by the pic-e. Both the pcie and 6 pin work without tranfers power between each other so AMD can not offset power from the pci-e to the 6pin.

Also the 6pin its working with 3 ground pins when 1 of those should be used to reconize the conector as a 6pins wich doesn´t do.

Well that was what he found so is best to wait for AIB cards and also AIB cards with custom pcb since if they use the same pcb of the reference it will not matter if they put a 8pin or 5 8pin conectors since the pci-e will still use the same watts as is using now.

Lowering the vram my help reduce the watt usage of the card so maybe someone can test that.

sry for my english.
post #636 of 1129
@Bauxno
Could you please provide a link to this stream of builzoid? I haven't found any results in google for it.

Sounds very interesting.
post #637 of 1129
Just gonna start by saying, I do not currently own an AMD or nvidia product and I'm not biased towards either side.
This "problem" is really over exaggerated. There are custom PCs like the MSI vortex which powers two 970M graphics cards over a single desktop PCI-E 16x slot - , >160W combined (if you think this is wrong you can check its disassembly video) , and that's by design so it shows that the slot can provide way more power than its 75W specification.
This would only be a problem with very cheap+old motherboards where the manufacturer would just design to meet the minimum spec with no room for error and\or implement a fail safe to turn itself off if it exceeds the 75W spec. Im confident there would be no problem with even the cheapest current motherboards.

Plus most of the people should always be waiting for custom cards from AIB partners which always comes with better cooling and power delivery which more than likely wont have this "problem".
post #638 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynas View Post

Just gonna start by saying, I do not currently own an AMD or nvidia product and I'm not biased towards either side.
This "problem" is really over exaggerated. There are custom PCs like the MSI vortex which powers two 970M graphics cards over a single desktop PCI-E 16x slot - , >160W combined (if you think this is wrong you can check its disassembly video) , and that's by design so it shows that the slot can provide way more power than its 75W specification.
This would only be a problem with very cheap+old motherboards where the manufacturer would just design to meet the minimum spec with no room for error and\or implement a fail safe to turn itself off if it exceeds the 75W spec. Im confident there would be no problem with even the cheapest current motherboards.

Plus most of the people should always be waiting for custom cards from AIB partners which always comes with better cooling and power delivery which more than likely wont have this "problem".
MSI's site states the Vortex has either SLI 960s or 980s, and doesn't the 960 have a six pin connector?
Edited by NihilOC - 7/2/16 at 7:03pm
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post #639 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martynas View Post

Just gonna start by saying, I do not currently own an AMD or nvidia product and I'm not biased towards either side.
This "problem" is really over exaggerated. There are custom PCs like the MSI vortex which powers two 970M graphics cards over a single desktop PCI-E 16x slot - , >160W combined (if you think this is wrong you can check its disassembly video) , and that's by design so it shows that the slot can provide way more power than its 75W specification.

You got this wrong.
The cards in the the MSI vortex are MXM based cards. I don't know exactly what type the 970M are, but they are either:

MXM-III (HE)
82mm 100mm 230(232) I, II, III, HE II, III, HE 75W 40 mm²

MXM-B
82mm 105mm A, B A, B 200W 256-bit


source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module

TL,DR - This is not comparable to a standard PCI-Express SLOT. They are built for notebooks and have one

EDIT:
The MXM type of the 970M is the MXM 3.0B, but the card is rated for 81W TDP.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - 7/2/16 at 7:07pm
post #640 of 1129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

@Bauxno
Could you please provide a link to this stream of builzoid? I haven't found any results in google for it.

Sounds very interesting.

Here's the link you're looking for:

https://www.twitch.tv/buildzoid/v/75850933

Go to the 54 mnute mark to see the that:

3 of the 6 pin grounds are together, no center sense pin isolated - the top 3 VRMs run to the 6 pin; the bottom 3 VRMs run to the PCI-e fingers. They are on separate circuits and not connected, this is the issue.
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